Pet Peeves with Games?
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Mine always is, completely forgetting what I was doing and where I was going after not touching a save file for a long time. This is happening to me right now with Stardew Valley.
I'm in Year 4, married Maru, have a decent farm going, I have yet to build the movie theater I just found out so that's something I can do. And I know up until that point, I called it a conclusion of a game, but yet I forgot completely about there being some minor goals or things I wanted to do. Completely out of my head. It was a year ago since I last touched that save.
This happens a lot with old saves, because sometimes I have had something in mind as to how I was going to play the game or where I was going with a character.
Games that don’t act like they are games. Too many designers think they are making “high art”. Examples:
Not being able to save any time for any reason - I have a life, stuff happens. I need to be able to save and leave the game at any time - during gameplay, dungeons, cutscenes, any time. Make it a suspend state if it must - but respect reality.
Non-pausable cutscenes - you are not the most important part of my life so you need to be able to pause without losing content.
Non-skippable cutscenes - I might have seen this 10 times before, let me skip.
Dialogue history - if you let me skip dialogue then you must have a dialogue history. I might have hit the skip button by accident so let me see what I missed.
Indicate when there isn’t new dialogue - make the chat options change when there is new dialogue, making it so I have to interact with the NPC or object again just to see if there is new dialogue is infuriating.
Show when an activity will fail - don’t make me search barrels that are empty. Skyrim does this perfectly.
If you have a map let me annotate it - somehow a magicly populating map is allowed in your world but I don’t have a pencil to write “come back here with a shovel”?
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Basically every console RPG ever. Certainly those which are not voice acted, and present characters "talking" at you by slowly ghost typing their lines out one character at a time into a text box and then awaiting your input at the end before proceeding to the next line, but inevitably with the dialog box refusing to even start listening for button presses until some seconds after I've read the text multiple times over, plus its partially completed form several times more.
I'm adding another dishonorable mention on this front which isn't even a text box: That fucking treasure chest opening animation in Vampire Survivors. If you know, you know.
I have to disagree with you on the Vampire Survivors chest, the music that plays during the animation is an absolute banger
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It's a minor pet peeve but I've disliked it when games have multiple weapons that share ammo, especially when the game doesn't explicitly tell you this. Some examples of games that do this are Doom and Half-Life. The reason I dislike this, is mainly because of how I play shooters in general. I always try to preserve my ammo by prioritizing my weakest weapons but in games that do this, I'm actually potentially wasting ammo because I'll either have less ammo for the other, usually more powerful, weapon(s), or I might not even get to use that better weapon because I had no idea it shared ammo with a weaker weapon.
I love the way they handled this in Doom Eternal - 6 out of your 7 basic weapons are matched in pairs, so you have 4 ammo types, but very low max ammo count for all of them. Instead you can pretty easily refill your ammo every ~20 seconds (using your chainsaw on an enemy drops ammo, and your chainsaw regens one fuel every ~20 seconds).
This means you never have an incentive to use weak weapons, EXCEPT for if you're waiting for your fuel to regen. What makes it work is that your "weak weapons" changes depending on the enemies, as every enemy has at least one weakpoint for one of your weapons.
So instead of making you play cautiously and conservatively, Eternal wants you to always use your best weapons and to aggressively push forward. This type of gameplay isn't for everyone, but as someone who usually ends their games with almost all items because "I might need them later!", Eternal really allowed me to just have fun with all the best stuff it has to offer.
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I think, you're perhaps conflating story with gameplay here? I do think, it's good to incorporate the tutorial into normal gameplay. So, you start playing the actual game right away and get told the controls as you need them. And sure, if it is a story-driven game, that probably means there has to be a story segment before all that to explain why you're starting on this journey to begin with. So, I'm not saying I want the tutorial to be an entirely separate thing, like it typically was in the 90s.
I'm mainly just complaining about when it's too intermixed, because I'd like to be able to skip all the text boxes where they're rambling about the story. If they switch mid-sentence to explaining what you're supposed to do and what buttons to press, then I'm likely to miss that while skipping through the story bits.
Preferably, there's a separate info box on screen after the dialogue ends (which is a good idea for several reasons), but it could also just be highlighted, if they want it to be within the dialogue.Ah, I see. In a lot of games, tutorial, story, and gameplay are happening all at once. Do you have an example offender that was on your mind originally?
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Mine always is, completely forgetting what I was doing and where I was going after not touching a save file for a long time. This is happening to me right now with Stardew Valley.
I'm in Year 4, married Maru, have a decent farm going, I have yet to build the movie theater I just found out so that's something I can do. And I know up until that point, I called it a conclusion of a game, but yet I forgot completely about there being some minor goals or things I wanted to do. Completely out of my head. It was a year ago since I last touched that save.
This happens a lot with old saves, because sometimes I have had something in mind as to how I was going to play the game or where I was going with a character.
My job. No seriously, that’s my pet peeve. I could play so many more great games if I didn’t have to work.
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Games that don’t act like they are games. Too many designers think they are making “high art”. Examples:
Not being able to save any time for any reason - I have a life, stuff happens. I need to be able to save and leave the game at any time - during gameplay, dungeons, cutscenes, any time. Make it a suspend state if it must - but respect reality.
Non-pausable cutscenes - you are not the most important part of my life so you need to be able to pause without losing content.
Non-skippable cutscenes - I might have seen this 10 times before, let me skip.
Dialogue history - if you let me skip dialogue then you must have a dialogue history. I might have hit the skip button by accident so let me see what I missed.
Indicate when there isn’t new dialogue - make the chat options change when there is new dialogue, making it so I have to interact with the NPC or object again just to see if there is new dialogue is infuriating.
Show when an activity will fail - don’t make me search barrels that are empty. Skyrim does this perfectly.
If you have a map let me annotate it - somehow a magicly populating map is allowed in your world but I don’t have a pencil to write “come back here with a shovel”?
Three first ones can also be game engine limitations. Im not saying its good desing and its always because the limitations, but there might be more happening under the hood that does not show to the end user. Things like quest stage flags or loading things behind the cut scenes.
Dialogue history i agree completelly. I love the way pillars of the eternity did this. I also loved how text refering to things like cities, characters and gods were highlighted and you could see short summary hovering your mouse over the higlighted text and clicking it opened the codex where you could read about the topic. This helped me immerse to game because my character would what the capital of the country is or what god uggapugga is. Also it helped when there was long times between game sessions.
About map markers. I like when i can add markers or text on the game map, but inherently i think game should do these things for you, either adding a symbol in the map, or adding something in to games quest log or codex. But on the other hand i lived in a era where if i wanted a map for game i needed to draw it by myself on the grid paper. The habit has stayed with me and in games like Dark souls, Remnant and blue prince i keep small notebook with me, where i write my notes and stupid theories. To me its really fun to read those scribles later and try to figure out what i have missed or how dumb i was.
Hollow knight, Project Zomboid, minecraft and Legend of Grimrock have all very different tools for you marking your map and in all of them the map system is part of the game desing and gameplay loop. While these games benefit from the map system to most of the games its just unnecessary. The ability to mark "digging spot #31" just is not necessary.
I love how in pillars of eternity and satisfactory you have in game notepads. And now days steam notepad is also great. You can even add screemshots to it, but i like my oldschool hand writing stuff more.
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Mine always is, completely forgetting what I was doing and where I was going after not touching a save file for a long time. This is happening to me right now with Stardew Valley.
I'm in Year 4, married Maru, have a decent farm going, I have yet to build the movie theater I just found out so that's something I can do. And I know up until that point, I called it a conclusion of a game, but yet I forgot completely about there being some minor goals or things I wanted to do. Completely out of my head. It was a year ago since I last touched that save.
This happens a lot with old saves, because sometimes I have had something in mind as to how I was going to play the game or where I was going with a character.
When you first start playing, you should be in a room that's moderately graphically intense and you can stand there indefinitely doing nothing. I need some time to dial in my graphics settings and controls. I hate when a game immediately drops you into a combat situation and I'm joining the action 5 seconds at a time as I twiddle with settings.
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Unpausable and unskippable cutscenes
Unpausable is unforgivable in the modern age but I generally don't mind unskippable if and only if it's the first time the scene plays on a profile.
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- Games that offer stealth as an option over combat, but have mandatory combat bosses.
- games that have excessive grinding as part of the main gameplay.
- Games where randomness is the primary factor in winning and losing.
You've described like 90% of modern gaming.
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I have to disagree with you on the Vampire Survivors chest, the music that plays during the animation is an absolute banger
Especially the gold chests that give you a fiver. However, my gripe is with the 3-4 second delay after it goes "bling" but before it presents you the button that allows you to dismiss the popup.
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Cyberpunk 2077 one of the quests in the expansion drops you into basically Alien: Isolation when up until that point you can beat the shit out of or hack the brains out of any other NPC you've come across. You go from being a cybered out demigod to basically a rat in a maze being chased by a giant metal invincible doberman.
Yeah, I played that. Didn't bother me as much as some boss fights though. They clearly didn't intend for you to fight that robot, so the only option was to sneak around it and I rather enjoy stealth gameplay.
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You can create/use multiple users on the Switch itself, are the saves then not separate?
For some reason, no. Not for things like Animal Crossings New Horizons. It's the same island so the same save so to speak. If my twin started playing the game on their profile, they could do whatever they wanted to my island because it's the same island.
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Three first ones can also be game engine limitations. Im not saying its good desing and its always because the limitations, but there might be more happening under the hood that does not show to the end user. Things like quest stage flags or loading things behind the cut scenes.
Dialogue history i agree completelly. I love the way pillars of the eternity did this. I also loved how text refering to things like cities, characters and gods were highlighted and you could see short summary hovering your mouse over the higlighted text and clicking it opened the codex where you could read about the topic. This helped me immerse to game because my character would what the capital of the country is or what god uggapugga is. Also it helped when there was long times between game sessions.
About map markers. I like when i can add markers or text on the game map, but inherently i think game should do these things for you, either adding a symbol in the map, or adding something in to games quest log or codex. But on the other hand i lived in a era where if i wanted a map for game i needed to draw it by myself on the grid paper. The habit has stayed with me and in games like Dark souls, Remnant and blue prince i keep small notebook with me, where i write my notes and stupid theories. To me its really fun to read those scribles later and try to figure out what i have missed or how dumb i was.
Hollow knight, Project Zomboid, minecraft and Legend of Grimrock have all very different tools for you marking your map and in all of them the map system is part of the game desing and gameplay loop. While these games benefit from the map system to most of the games its just unnecessary. The ability to mark "digging spot #31" just is not necessary.
I love how in pillars of eternity and satisfactory you have in game notepads. And now days steam notepad is also great. You can even add screemshots to it, but i like my oldschool hand writing stuff more.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply!
Engine limitations I can excuse to a limited degree (it just says to me it wasn’t prioritised correctly) but not for saving any time - at least from the world map, or similar out of engagement situations. If I can save from a church (looking at you, Dragon Quest) I can save from an inn or a bridge or a bush.
I played a game where the cutscenes could only be skipped once loading was done, can’t remember which though - one of the Call of Duty games maybe? That would be a fair compromise.
Drawing maps out by hand is definitely a habit I am pleased not to have to do any more! Back in the days when a game lived in its big box next to my computer it wasn’t a big problem to keep paper in it but nowadays any written notes I made would get lost immediately! If the game designers allow an in game map it should have some basic features like zooming, annotations, and auto-population. I agree that marking every little detail can make a map unusable but it should be my choice as the player what I do with the map, even if that means recording somewhere I found a random horse I want to go back to.
Mostly your comment is making me want to go back to Pillars of Eternity so thank you for that!
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Thank you for your thoughtful reply!
Engine limitations I can excuse to a limited degree (it just says to me it wasn’t prioritised correctly) but not for saving any time - at least from the world map, or similar out of engagement situations. If I can save from a church (looking at you, Dragon Quest) I can save from an inn or a bridge or a bush.
I played a game where the cutscenes could only be skipped once loading was done, can’t remember which though - one of the Call of Duty games maybe? That would be a fair compromise.
Drawing maps out by hand is definitely a habit I am pleased not to have to do any more! Back in the days when a game lived in its big box next to my computer it wasn’t a big problem to keep paper in it but nowadays any written notes I made would get lost immediately! If the game designers allow an in game map it should have some basic features like zooming, annotations, and auto-population. I agree that marking every little detail can make a map unusable but it should be my choice as the player what I do with the map, even if that means recording somewhere I found a random horse I want to go back to.
Mostly your comment is making me want to go back to Pillars of Eternity so thank you for that!
Coming back to the map markings. It is also economics. How many players are going to use the feature versus how much work it is. It migh seem simple thing, but when you add option for player to write on the map there are lots of things you need to take in to account.
How many symbols can be used, what happens if the games resolution is changed from the settings, how the text wraps if its close to the edge of map, what if there appears new automatic map marker under text user has wroten, are there interactive symbols for fast travelling or something else, will those go under the text or on top, what if writing uses special characters etc etc. Not to mention if devs have been cute with the map and its not just a flat texture. Skyrims map for example is the game world and you can see storms on it.
Spending time to make and test all those features when it really serves a tiny fraction of the playerbase is wastefull.About saving the game. For better or worse its also a game mechanic and now days its not necessary about the limitation. For example if you could save in a middle of an battle in pokemon you could just save the moment you start a fight with shiny pokemon and you could infinetly try to catch it without any stakes. Or if you could save in middle of epic multiphase jrpg boss it would take away from the feeling of succes after long battle.
But i absolutelly agree games should atleast have exit save, so if real live happens and you need to close the game, it should not punish the player and loose their progression.
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You can create/use multiple users on the Switch itself, are the saves then not separate?
Yes, but in the case of some games, the save data is shared.
I don't have a Pokémon game on Switch, so I can't speak to it directly.
On Animal Crossing, the first player goes through an orientation scene at the airport where they are told they won an island getaway package. They create their character, and then they choose an island shape from four randomly generated choices. Once all that's done, you fly to the island and get to see the airport colour (this matters to some people), the native fruit (determines what recipes you can make, and some have preferences), and who your starter animal villagers (always a Big Sister personality female and a Jock personality male) will be. Sometimes you don't like one of those, so you reset. I had to reset seven times to get an island I wanted (blue airport, oranges, and I forget who my starters were now — they have both moved away).
So anyway, the second player does not get the orientation and the island picker. Instead, their orientation has them joining the first player's island. The first player will always be the "Island Representative" and this is the only player Tom Nook (the racoon "boss" of the island, so to speak) will talk to about upgrades for the island and features you can unlock by completing simple quests. The other player(s) will have access to these once the "island representative" has unlocked them, but if they required learning a recipe, the other players will NOT be given that recipe. They can find it randomly in a message bottle on the beach, shot down from a balloon by a slingshot, or from a villager who is crafting something. Or, they can get it from another player, such as a hacked player running a treasure island where you can get ALL the recipes.
Case in point: My wife's island. My wife bought the Switch for Animal Crossing, then decided she did not like Animal Crossing (it IS kind of a slow and pointless "chill" game), so she stopped playing. She unlocked a couple things, but I could not unlock anything else. So she agreed to let me delete her island and start a new one.
Case in point 2: My island. I've been playing my own island since May. EVERYTHING is unlocked. So she can start a new character, move onto my island, and have access to all the features. There may be a few things she can't craft because she doesn't have the recipe, and the game is less likely to spawn a recipe the island rep got for free (it's considered lower priority).
Sorry for the long reply, just wanted to clarify how it actually works. This is intentional: for "personal" games like Pokémon and Animal Crossing, Nintendo fully expects the second player to buy their own Switch and their own copy of the game. Once you've done that, you're both island reps on your own islands, and you can visit each other over a local connection (no paid Nintendo Switch Online account required!). Now this is where it's super important to make sure your second island does not have the same native fruit. There are five fruits (orange, apple, cherry, peach, and pear) and you will always have a native fruit, your fruit trees only grow this. You will have a secondary fruit your "mom" will send you and other villagers will gift you, and mystery islands have a low percentage chance of spawning. Once you figure out what those two are, you want to make sure the second island doesn't use either as its native... and hope its secondary isn't the same either. Then, you can trade fruits, and now you have access to four. You'll need to trade with at least two other players to get access to all five fruits. (There are also coconuts but everyone is guaranteed to get those.)
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Ah, I see. In a lot of games, tutorial, story, and gameplay are happening all at once. Do you have an example offender that was on your mind originally?
I think, this was on my mind: https://pt.mezzo.moe/w/waYE4NkZGpqQ9qpW1th1ga?start=15m10s
I don't know, with this example in particular, I find it quite disruptive, too, that there's explanations of the game mechanics and then the character barges in with some funky expression and some rhethoric question à la "And then I'm that thing?". Yeah, dude, did you not listen to the tutorial ghost explaining that just then?
In fairness, this is a game that's pretty much story-first with a bit of puzzling in between. And it was only that Let's Play that I saw; I would've almost certainly skipped that game, if I came across the store page, since I assume, it would've been obvious that it's a story game.
Well, and also in fairness, this is a pretty fringe game. There's a decent chance that it isn't considered 'good' in other aspects either.In general, I don't want to be too critical. Not every game has to be for me. Well, most don't have to be, since I don't play an insane variety of games to begin with. But yeah, still just wanted to throw that into the conversation as a pet peeve of mine, since there's (perhaps less egregious) examples of that in a variety of games.
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Mine always is, completely forgetting what I was doing and where I was going after not touching a save file for a long time. This is happening to me right now with Stardew Valley.
I'm in Year 4, married Maru, have a decent farm going, I have yet to build the movie theater I just found out so that's something I can do. And I know up until that point, I called it a conclusion of a game, but yet I forgot completely about there being some minor goals or things I wanted to do. Completely out of my head. It was a year ago since I last touched that save.
This happens a lot with old saves, because sometimes I have had something in mind as to how I was going to play the game or where I was going with a character.
Games that dont let you skip the tutorial and all cutscenes. Like I get that most people want to watch the story or read the dialogue but I dont.
Games that are to easy. Its so annoying when a good game spends way to long scaling up the difficulty and you have to play for like 10 hours before the fights stop being completely mindless. Its such a waste of time.
My last pet peeve is for sandbox games and myself. Its so annoying when I have built a thing that has a lot of intergrated parts and then I decide to do a massive redesign of some part. Then I remove the parts and dont finish building the replacement. So next time i log in im immediately hit with an entire system that doesnt work and I have try clean up my own mess.
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That's a quirk of the medium I've learned to accept. Some games do it well by having chunks of "on-rails" bits and others of "free-roam" based on what's happening in the story so that it makes more sense.
You're completely right of course, but I'll say it bugs me too at times. I was always able to forgive it but as we got more advanced visually it bugged me more. Then finally in Oblivion it was too much for me. I still love and respect the game, but it actively bugs me there are portals around the world that are just waiting for me to decide I want to fight. I know it's dumb, but it is what it is.
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Mine always is, completely forgetting what I was doing and where I was going after not touching a save file for a long time. This is happening to me right now with Stardew Valley.
I'm in Year 4, married Maru, have a decent farm going, I have yet to build the movie theater I just found out so that's something I can do. And I know up until that point, I called it a conclusion of a game, but yet I forgot completely about there being some minor goals or things I wanted to do. Completely out of my head. It was a year ago since I last touched that save.
This happens a lot with old saves, because sometimes I have had something in mind as to how I was going to play the game or where I was going with a character.
I've often wondered why some more advanced games like Elder Scrolls don't keep track of dramatic actions in some way and offer them up to you when you leave the game for a while. A "previously..." kind of element. Big budget action games too, like from Rockstar.
Obviously they just don't think it's worth the work, but I do wonder if it would affect completion rates.
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Mine always is, completely forgetting what I was doing and where I was going after not touching a save file for a long time. This is happening to me right now with Stardew Valley.
I'm in Year 4, married Maru, have a decent farm going, I have yet to build the movie theater I just found out so that's something I can do. And I know up until that point, I called it a conclusion of a game, but yet I forgot completely about there being some minor goals or things I wanted to do. Completely out of my head. It was a year ago since I last touched that save.
This happens a lot with old saves, because sometimes I have had something in mind as to how I was going to play the game or where I was going with a character.
When games have a designated button to show interactive elements in the environment
This just screams "we don't know how to make an uncluttered game"
