What challenge from a game isn't worth completing and what challenge from a game is worth completing?
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On the whole, achievements encourage players to do stuff that isn't fun. Sometimes they're funny or encourage good gameplay, but too often they're just busywork, mindless random drops, or insane investments in time/skill.
Trophies can be very fun when they incentivize the player to interact with the game in ways that you normally don’t do during a regular play through.
Most games have trophies designed by some corporate drone and consist of a handful of trophies giving for completing the storyline and the rest for token actions that you’ll inevitably do while playing. They fucking suck!
Ratchet and Clank did it right back in the day before trophies with their Skill Point system. Little fun challenges that you wouldn’t normally do. Gave you points to unlock some skins and cheats.
Is that really so much to ask for… yeah I already know the answer.
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
Factorio: lazy bastard is not worth getting but there is no spoon is absolutely worth getting. People over estimate how much is required pre rocket and get bogged down in these over engineered designs. After finishing thre is no spoon you realise how little is actually required and its best to just go build something than try design the perfect system that lasts into the megabase era.
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Finishing a Dark Souls game.
And finishing a Dark Souls game.
I was going to say Soul Level 1 playthrough of Dark Souls is one of my favorite gaming experiences. Absolutely worth it for me. Helped me through some depression. Do not recommend to anyone however.
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Well, to me this is worth it, because the journey is. Zelda Tears of the Kingdom is a similar thing. Doing all of the work for just a checkmark is not really worth it, but the adventure and the fun I have doing all of this is worth it. I am not after the price, but after the experience. Therefore its worth it, if its fun to do.
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
Oh BTW I am currently waiting to complete a "challenge" (its an achievement) for a special game, with a special achievement. All I have to do is, not to play the game. No seriously, "The Stanley Parable" has a famous achievement, that you get if you don't launch the game for 5 years. The fun story is, I purchased the game just to get this achievement. Really. I purchased it and waited 5 years, then installed it and run it.
But wait, why don't I get the achievement? After an investigation I came to realize that the game has to run at least once, so the timer starts counting. Well, since then I played the game and wait another 5 years. I almost reached the fifth year. So to complete everything (which I did not honestly) you would need to do not to play the game. Is it worth it? I say absolutely!
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
Super-bosses that award ultimate weapons... like why am I going to use this weapon now that the biggest challenge is done?
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
I hunt down achievements when I enjoy the game and the achievements sound fun and not busywork. If it's interesting side quests, minigames, or fun challenges, I almost always do them. I also like playing at max difficulty when it's fair.
If it's about going through a checklist to collect 100 feathers or spending 50 hours learning the entire game by heart to complete some hardcore challenge, I'd rather do something else with my time.
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Regarding collectables-based challenges, in my experience, all collectables that don't unlock content or aren't some kind of upgrade are a waste of time.
I remember collecting all the figments in Psychonauts 1, how frustrating and time consuming it was and how it was near useless to the regression of the game. I love Psychonauts and I would like to play it again over and over, but I would not collect those pesky figments ever again.
If the collectibles aren't satisfying to obtain on their own, I don't think putting an unlock behind them makes them retroactively better.
A good collectible is something like Strawberries in Celeste, each one requires you to take a more difficult path or do an additional screen. They're fun to go for, and I think it actually would've detracted if some unlock made them feel like a required task rather than a bonus challenge.
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
Worth in my opinion: 100%ing Celeste -- it felt rewarding to 100% the game, and there are even extra collectibles if you really want to challenge yourself but I really appreciate this was not part of the 100% completion for all the achievements.
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Super-bosses that award ultimate weapons... like why am I going to use this weapon now that the biggest challenge is done?
You might need them for ultra-bosses that reward ultimate ultimate weapons.
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Factorio: lazy bastard is not worth getting but there is no spoon is absolutely worth getting. People over estimate how much is required pre rocket and get bogged down in these over engineered designs. After finishing thre is no spoon you realise how little is actually required and its best to just go build something than try design the perfect system that lasts into the megabase era.
My first full Factorio playthrough was a Lazy Bastard run. The game is a lot more chill when turning off biter expansions & turning up trees slightly in the map gen.
Granted I think I racked up like 200hrs in that run, largely because I could leave the game running in the background whilst going off to study or do other stuff. Once you're past the intial stage & have a mall set up, hand-crafting really doesn't matter much.
There is no spoon was alright as a goal, but it also ends up being a definitive end to that playthrough (which, arguably, can be both good and bad).
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
Most collecting achievements are just game filler really. The ones I find interesting are ones that, in a more free-form game, create an interesting goal to work towards.
For some of my favourites I've on occasion gone through the list and been like 'Yeah that sounds like an interesting objective.'
The key for decent ones is usually that they are an achievable goal for one playthrough that act as a 'guiding star'.
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
I cleared all the question marks in Skellige in Witcher 3. I expected...something...anything?
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
As someone who has in fact completed both the original Gen 1 and the full Gen 2 Pokedex (including Mew and MissingNo.), I genuinely can't imagine playing through a Pokemon game without at least completing the regional pokedex. Collecting the creatures is what I play those types of games for.
And the reward isn't the little completion diploma Oak gives you to print out. It's the self satisfaction that comes with finishing your goal. Like getting all the achievements in a game; I don't get anything whatsoever for that, but I still like to do it. Because I'm a completionist.
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Super-bosses that award ultimate weapons... like why am I going to use this weapon now that the biggest challenge is done?
There is sadistic satisfaction to be had from absolutely nuking enemies who gave you trouble before.
I also like collecting shiny things.
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
Beg to differ on the Pokemon example, but then again I am a completionist so that type of challenge gives me lots of self satisfaction (plus now I have achievements through RetroAchevements so a little bragging rights). Frankly, things like that should have internal motivation, so literally no reward is fine by me. I'm literally doing a professor oak challenge right now, which is significantly worse, lol.
Where I draw the line is mostly challenges that I just don't see myself being able to accomplish in a given lifetime. Like the Balatro golden chip on every joker is way too RNG and time consuming for me. I also generally prefer not to have to do a speed run, but that's mostly because I have kids now and setting something down without worrying about time is ideal.
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Either one or both works.
Mine is completing the Pokedex in the original Pokemon games. All you get is just Professor Oak giving you a wink and a small few second cut scene. And a congratulations text. Imagine spending all of your time then, getting all 151 and even 252 pokemon just for that? Yeah no thanks, I never completed the pokedex.
Going the Joja-Route in Stardew Valley. I say this mainly because, it is what you make of it. You forfeit being able to complete the Community Center by earning things, when you sign your soul away to Joja. What I would've liked is seeing Pierre go out of business completely. I just think that would add a route of depth in the game where you have to make ends meet through Joja because Pierre is permanently closed.
But, that doesn't happen, he'll still be in business despite his depression about Joja running things. Kindof ruins the whole concept of doing it for the achievements even.
I got one character to lvl 60 in Classic WoW Hardcore. When I got that last level up, I cried a bit. Very emotional journey.
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Super-bosses that award ultimate weapons... like why am I going to use this weapon now that the biggest challenge is done?
You killed the ultimate boss; now with their drop you are the setting's ultimate boss. You just need to wait for another plucky young upstart to rise and take you down.
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On the whole, achievements encourage players to do stuff that isn't fun. Sometimes they're funny or encourage good gameplay, but too often they're just busywork, mindless random drops, or insane investments in time/skill.
After someone on Lemmy recommended Dwarf Eats Mountain (it's okay), I checked out the idle game genre for the first time.
On one extreme, Magic Archery was completed in under an hour and all seven achievements were earned during normal gameplay.
But most other idle games, ho boy. They tend to have several hundred achievements, many of which would take literal weeks if not months to achieve, and often require resetting the game back to the start dozens of times due to prestige mechanics that are necessary for late-game progression.
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Oh BTW I am currently waiting to complete a "challenge" (its an achievement) for a special game, with a special achievement. All I have to do is, not to play the game. No seriously, "The Stanley Parable" has a famous achievement, that you get if you don't launch the game for 5 years. The fun story is, I purchased the game just to get this achievement. Really. I purchased it and waited 5 years, then installed it and run it.
But wait, why don't I get the achievement? After an investigation I came to realize that the game has to run at least once, so the timer starts counting. Well, since then I played the game and wait another 5 years. I almost reached the fifth year. So to complete everything (which I did not honestly) you would need to do not to play the game. Is it worth it? I say absolutely!
The Stanley Parable is a meta game - a game about playing and making games. And there you are having fun not playing a game…
