Fun fact: you can't upload this image on piefed.social
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I've been wondering, what's the deal with that Sxan guy's spelling?
They say that it's a bid to contaminate AI data collection, but it really just reads like more of a cry for attention
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Lemmy recently removed a feature using lemmy.ml as a source of truth for federated communities: https://lemmy.ml/comment/23400094
All Fediverse developers make mistakes.
Sure, but there is a difference between a hacked together solution being removed as the community expanded, and coding in a petty gripe with a particular user.
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I only support the inclusion of the feature if there's also an option to convert all
ths into thorns. Fair is fair.Which would appropriate for a client-side user-level filter instead of a server-side instance-admin hard-coded setting.
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There are all kinds of fun stuff in the Piefed code. Allow me to dredge up a comment I made recently:
@edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space was looking at PieFed code the other week, and I ended up taking a look at it too. Its great fun to sneak a peak at.
For example, you cannot cast a vote on PieFed if you've made 0 replies, 0 posts, AND your username is 8 characters long:
def cannot_vote(self): if self.is_local(): return False return self.post_count == 0 and self.post_reply_count == 0 and len( self.user_name) == 8 # most vote manipulation bots have 8 character user names and never post any contentIf a reply is created, from anywhere, that only contains the word "this", the comment is dropped (CW: ableism in the function name):
def reply_is_stupid(body) -> bool: lower_body = body.lower().strip() if lower_body == 'this' or lower_body == 'this.' or lower_body == 'this!': return True return FalseEvery user (remote or local) has an "attitude" which is calculated as follows:
(upvotes cast - downvotes cast) / (upvotes + downvotes). If your "attitude" is < 0.0 you can't downvote.Every account has a Social Credit Score, aka your Reputation. If your account has less than 100 reputation and is newly created, you are not considered "trustworthy" and there are limitations placed on what your account can do. Your reputation is calculated as
upvotes earned - downvotes earnedaka Reddit Karma. If your reputation is at -10 you also cannot downvote, and you can't create new DMs. It also flags your account automatically if your reputation is to low:
PieFed boasts that it has "4chan image detection". Let's see how that works in practice:
if site.enable_chan_image_filter: # Do not allow fascist meme content try: if '.avif' in uploaded_file.filename: import pillow_avif # NOQA image_text = pytesseract.image_to_string(Image.open(BytesIO(uploaded_file.read())).convert('L')) except FileNotFoundError: image_text = '' except UnidentifiedImageError: image_text = '' if 'Anonymous' in image_text and ( 'No.' in image_text or ' N0' in image_text): # chan posts usually contain the text 'Anonymous' and ' No.12345' self.image_file.errors.append( "This image is an invalid file type.") # deliberately misleading error message current_user.reputation -= 1 db.session.commit() return FalseYup. If your image contains the word
Anonymous, and contains the textNo.orN0it will reject the image with a fake error message. Not only does it give you a fake error, but it also will dock your Social Credit Score. Take note of thecurrent_user.reputation -= 1PieFed also boasts that it has AI generated text detection. Let's see how that also works in practice:
# LLM Detection if reply.body and '—' in reply.body and user.created_very_recently(): # usage of em-dash is highly suspect. from app.utils import notify_admin # notify adminThis is the default detection, apparently you can use an API endpoint for that detection as well apparently, but it's not documented anywhere but within the code.
Do you want to leave a comment that is just a funny gif? No you don't. Not on PieFed, that will get your comment dropped and lower your Social Credit Score!
if reply_is_just_link_to_gif_reaction(reply.body) and site.enable_gif_reply_rep_decrease: user.reputation -= 1 raise PostReplyValidationError(_('Gif comment ignored'))How does it know its just a gif though?
def reply_is_just_link_to_gif_reaction(body) -> bool: tmp_body = body.strip() if tmp_body.startswith('https://media.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media1.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media2.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media3.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://i.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://i.imgflip.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media1.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media2.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media3.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media4.giphy.com/'): return True else: return FalseI'm not even sure someone would actually drop a link like this directly into a comment. It's not even taking into consideration whether those URLs are part of a markdown image tag.
As Edie mentioned, if someone has a user blocked, and that user replies to someone, their comment is dropped:
if parent_comment.author.has_blocked_user(user.id) or parent_comment.author.has_blocked_instance(user.instance_id): log_incoming_ap(id, APLOG_CREATE, APLOG_FAILURE, saved_json, 'Parent comment author blocked replier') return NoneFor Example:
- Cowbees comment on lemmy.ml: https://lemmy.ml/post/41587312/23288779
- Non-existent on piefed.social: https://piefed.social/comment/9647830
(see Edies original comment here)
More from Edie:
Also add if the poster has blocked you! It is exactly as nonsense as you think.
Example:
I made a post in testing@piefed.social from my account testingpiefed@piefed.social, replied to it from my other testingpiefed@piefed.zip account. Since the .social account has blocked the .zip, it doesn't show up on .social, nor on e.g. piefed.europe.pub.
I then made a comment from my lemmy.ml account, and replied to it from my piefed.zip account, and neither .social, nor europe.pub can see my .zip reply, but can see my lemmy.ml comment!
[ Let me add more clarity here: what this feature does is two things. On a local instance, if you block someone who is on your instance, they cannot reply to you. However, this condition is not federated (yet, it would seem), and so, to get around this "issue", the system will drop comments from being stored in the PieFed database IF the blocked user is remote. This means you end up with "ghost comment chains" on remote instances. There is NEW code as of a few weeks ago, that will send an AUTOMATED mod action against blocked remote users to remove the comment. So long as the community is a local PieFed community, it will federate that mod action to the remote server, removing the comment automatically. For PieFed servers, eventually, they would rather federate the users block list (that's fair), but it would seem this code to send automated mod actions to remove comments due to user blocks is going to stay just for the Lemmy Piefed interaction. I don't really understand why the system simply doesn't prevent the rendering of the comment, instead of stopping it from being stored. It knows the user is blocked, it already checks it, it should then just stop rendering the chain of comments for the given user, prevent notifications from those users, etc. ]
But wait! There's More!
- PieFed defederates from Hexbear.net, Lemmygrad.ml, and Lemmy.ml out of the box.
- The "rational discourse" sidebar that you see on the main instance is hard coded into the system.
Moderators of a community can kick you from a community, which unsubscribes you from it, and does not notify you.This has been removed actually, the API endpoint is still there.- I was going to say that Admins had the ability to add a weight to votes coming from other instances, but the videos that showed this are now gone, and as of v1.5.0 they have removed the instance vote weight feature, claiming it was "unused".
All this to say. Piefed is a silly place, and no one should bother using its software.
Wooow, I didn't know any of this. Thanks for the detailed explanation
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lol hardcoded shit everywhere
It's open source. Why not? People who want a configuration menu can create a patch.
Downvoters, do you have an argument? What is it but entitlement to demand that free open source software should be written differently from what the programmer wants?
I didn't downvote your comment. But let me argue anyway.
Lots of people flock to PieFed because it is not made by the Lenmy devs who are unpalatably heavy handed in their "moderation" on the ml instance. One would hope this means PieFed offers more freedom to use the software how you like. So it's funny that it's even stricter "moderation" AND NOW ITS HARDCODED so it affects every instance.
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the whole þ fiasco
That has since been removed. Yeah, rimu is certainly opinionated and passionate about what he believes in, but has also been pretty receptive to feedback, both from users and from admins (like in the private voting case). Fortunately, there are alternative threadiverse platforms out there for people that want them. Both lemmy and mbin do some stuff better than PieFed, and that's ok. The different projects have maintained working relationships at the dev level to try to make sure interoperability outside the base activitypub spec doesn't completely break (the post-moving feature/FEP was a collaboration between PieFed, lemmy, and NodeBB for example).
the private voting case
What's this?
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If 0/0 < 0 would error?
If 0 < 0 evaluates false
That makes it even worse???
Usually 0/0=NaN and NaN compared with a number would be false.
Maybe the (up-down)/(up+down) is just what AmazingWizard summarized from the code. But from what we have seen of the quality of that codebase I won't be surprised if it's literally this expression, division by zero and all. Lol
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They say that it's a bid to contaminate AI data collection, but it really just reads like more of a cry for attention
Yeah, I've seen him around and that's the conclusion I kinda came to. "You do you", though.
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lol hardcoded shit everywhere
It's open source. Why not? People who want a configuration menu can create a patch.
Downvoters, do you have an argument? What is it but entitlement to demand that free open source software should be written differently from what the programmer wants?
Its already configurable—some people sent patches for those things already.
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Was wondering what those red exclamations were on some piefed users. Also surprising that I see them using a Lemmy client on a Lemmy instance, but can't click on them to see what they mean, as highlighted here.
I am very interested in what client you are using. Do you have a screenshot of this?
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I am very interested in what client you are using. Do you have a screenshot of this?
Considering what wjs018 said, I now suspect the users I've seen it on just added the symbol in their display name like a badge of honor, like how mine is all emojis. Which is what I thought before seeing this thread initially.
And I use Connect.
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the private voting case
What's this?
Off the top of my head,
Since votes on Lemmy aren't private, anyone can view them. Piefed added anonymized votes (iirc, by sending them from a shadow user with a username that was a hash of the actual voters username), this raised concerns, as vote spam could be harder to spot/stop, so it was removed.
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Off the top of my head,
Since votes on Lemmy aren't private, anyone can view them. Piefed added anonymized votes (iirc, by sending them from a shadow user with a username that was a hash of the actual voters username), this raised concerns, as vote spam could be harder to spot/stop, so it was removed.
Oh interesting. Anonymous votes does sound cool.
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There are all kinds of fun stuff in the Piefed code. Allow me to dredge up a comment I made recently:
@edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space was looking at PieFed code the other week, and I ended up taking a look at it too. Its great fun to sneak a peak at.
For example, you cannot cast a vote on PieFed if you've made 0 replies, 0 posts, AND your username is 8 characters long:
def cannot_vote(self): if self.is_local(): return False return self.post_count == 0 and self.post_reply_count == 0 and len( self.user_name) == 8 # most vote manipulation bots have 8 character user names and never post any contentIf a reply is created, from anywhere, that only contains the word "this", the comment is dropped (CW: ableism in the function name):
def reply_is_stupid(body) -> bool: lower_body = body.lower().strip() if lower_body == 'this' or lower_body == 'this.' or lower_body == 'this!': return True return FalseEvery user (remote or local) has an "attitude" which is calculated as follows:
(upvotes cast - downvotes cast) / (upvotes + downvotes). If your "attitude" is < 0.0 you can't downvote.Every account has a Social Credit Score, aka your Reputation. If your account has less than 100 reputation and is newly created, you are not considered "trustworthy" and there are limitations placed on what your account can do. Your reputation is calculated as
upvotes earned - downvotes earnedaka Reddit Karma. If your reputation is at -10 you also cannot downvote, and you can't create new DMs. It also flags your account automatically if your reputation is to low:PieFed boasts that it has "4chan image detection". Let's see how that works in practice:
if site.enable_chan_image_filter: # Do not allow fascist meme content try: if '.avif' in uploaded_file.filename: import pillow_avif # NOQA image_text = pytesseract.image_to_string(Image.open(BytesIO(uploaded_file.read())).convert('L')) except FileNotFoundError: image_text = '' except UnidentifiedImageError: image_text = '' if 'Anonymous' in image_text and ( 'No.' in image_text or ' N0' in image_text): # chan posts usually contain the text 'Anonymous' and ' No.12345' self.image_file.errors.append( "This image is an invalid file type.") # deliberately misleading error message current_user.reputation -= 1 db.session.commit() return FalseYup. If your image contains the word
Anonymous, and contains the textNo.orN0it will reject the image with a fake error message. Not only does it give you a fake error, but it also will dock your Social Credit Score. Take note of thecurrent_user.reputation -= 1PieFed also boasts that it has AI generated text detection. Let's see how that also works in practice:
# LLM Detection if reply.body and '—' in reply.body and user.created_very_recently(): # usage of em-dash is highly suspect. from app.utils import notify_admin # notify adminThis is the default detection, apparently you can use an API endpoint for that detection as well apparently, but it's not documented anywhere but within the code.
Do you want to leave a comment that is just a funny gif? No you don't. Not on PieFed, that will get your comment dropped and lower your Social Credit Score!
if reply_is_just_link_to_gif_reaction(reply.body) and site.enable_gif_reply_rep_decrease: user.reputation -= 1 raise PostReplyValidationError(_('Gif comment ignored'))How does it know its just a gif though?
def reply_is_just_link_to_gif_reaction(body) -> bool: tmp_body = body.strip() if tmp_body.startswith('https://media.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media1.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media2.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media3.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://i.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://i.imgflip.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media1.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media2.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media3.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media4.giphy.com/'): return True else: return FalseI'm not even sure someone would actually drop a link like this directly into a comment. It's not even taking into consideration whether those URLs are part of a markdown image tag.
As Edie mentioned, if someone has a user blocked, and that user replies to someone, their comment is dropped:
if parent_comment.author.has_blocked_user(user.id) or parent_comment.author.has_blocked_instance(user.instance_id): log_incoming_ap(id, APLOG_CREATE, APLOG_FAILURE, saved_json, 'Parent comment author blocked replier') return NoneFor Example:
- Cowbees comment on lemmy.ml: https://lemmy.ml/post/41587312/23288779
- Non-existent on piefed.social: https://piefed.social/comment/9647830
(see Edies original comment here)
More from Edie:
Also add if the poster has blocked you! It is exactly as nonsense as you think.
Example:
I made a post in testing@piefed.social from my account testingpiefed@piefed.social, replied to it from my other testingpiefed@piefed.zip account. Since the .social account has blocked the .zip, it doesn't show up on .social, nor on e.g. piefed.europe.pub.
I then made a comment from my lemmy.ml account, and replied to it from my piefed.zip account, and neither .social, nor europe.pub can see my .zip reply, but can see my lemmy.ml comment!
[ Let me add more clarity here: what this feature does is two things. On a local instance, if you block someone who is on your instance, they cannot reply to you. However, this condition is not federated (yet, it would seem), and so, to get around this "issue", the system will drop comments from being stored in the PieFed database IF the blocked user is remote. This means you end up with "ghost comment chains" on remote instances. There is NEW code as of a few weeks ago, that will send an AUTOMATED mod action against blocked remote users to remove the comment. So long as the community is a local PieFed community, it will federate that mod action to the remote server, removing the comment automatically. For PieFed servers, eventually, they would rather federate the users block list (that's fair), but it would seem this code to send automated mod actions to remove comments due to user blocks is going to stay just for the Lemmy Piefed interaction. I don't really understand why the system simply doesn't prevent the rendering of the comment, instead of stopping it from being stored. It knows the user is blocked, it already checks it, it should then just stop rendering the chain of comments for the given user, prevent notifications from those users, etc. ]
But wait! There's More!
- PieFed defederates from Hexbear.net, Lemmygrad.ml, and Lemmy.ml out of the box.
- The "rational discourse" sidebar that you see on the main instance is hard coded into the system.
Moderators of a community can kick you from a community, which unsubscribes you from it, and does not notify you.This has been removed actually, the API endpoint is still there.- I was going to say that Admins had the ability to add a weight to votes coming from other instances, but the videos that showed this are now gone, and as of v1.5.0 they have removed the instance vote weight feature, claiming it was "unused".
All this to say. Piefed is a silly place, and no one should bother using its software.
if anything, the code examples confirmed my belief that most python coders are fucking morons.
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There are all kinds of fun stuff in the Piefed code. Allow me to dredge up a comment I made recently:
@edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space was looking at PieFed code the other week, and I ended up taking a look at it too. Its great fun to sneak a peak at.
For example, you cannot cast a vote on PieFed if you've made 0 replies, 0 posts, AND your username is 8 characters long:
def cannot_vote(self): if self.is_local(): return False return self.post_count == 0 and self.post_reply_count == 0 and len( self.user_name) == 8 # most vote manipulation bots have 8 character user names and never post any contentIf a reply is created, from anywhere, that only contains the word "this", the comment is dropped (CW: ableism in the function name):
def reply_is_stupid(body) -> bool: lower_body = body.lower().strip() if lower_body == 'this' or lower_body == 'this.' or lower_body == 'this!': return True return FalseEvery user (remote or local) has an "attitude" which is calculated as follows:
(upvotes cast - downvotes cast) / (upvotes + downvotes). If your "attitude" is < 0.0 you can't downvote.Every account has a Social Credit Score, aka your Reputation. If your account has less than 100 reputation and is newly created, you are not considered "trustworthy" and there are limitations placed on what your account can do. Your reputation is calculated as
upvotes earned - downvotes earnedaka Reddit Karma. If your reputation is at -10 you also cannot downvote, and you can't create new DMs. It also flags your account automatically if your reputation is to low:PieFed boasts that it has "4chan image detection". Let's see how that works in practice:
if site.enable_chan_image_filter: # Do not allow fascist meme content try: if '.avif' in uploaded_file.filename: import pillow_avif # NOQA image_text = pytesseract.image_to_string(Image.open(BytesIO(uploaded_file.read())).convert('L')) except FileNotFoundError: image_text = '' except UnidentifiedImageError: image_text = '' if 'Anonymous' in image_text and ( 'No.' in image_text or ' N0' in image_text): # chan posts usually contain the text 'Anonymous' and ' No.12345' self.image_file.errors.append( "This image is an invalid file type.") # deliberately misleading error message current_user.reputation -= 1 db.session.commit() return FalseYup. If your image contains the word
Anonymous, and contains the textNo.orN0it will reject the image with a fake error message. Not only does it give you a fake error, but it also will dock your Social Credit Score. Take note of thecurrent_user.reputation -= 1PieFed also boasts that it has AI generated text detection. Let's see how that also works in practice:
# LLM Detection if reply.body and '—' in reply.body and user.created_very_recently(): # usage of em-dash is highly suspect. from app.utils import notify_admin # notify adminThis is the default detection, apparently you can use an API endpoint for that detection as well apparently, but it's not documented anywhere but within the code.
Do you want to leave a comment that is just a funny gif? No you don't. Not on PieFed, that will get your comment dropped and lower your Social Credit Score!
if reply_is_just_link_to_gif_reaction(reply.body) and site.enable_gif_reply_rep_decrease: user.reputation -= 1 raise PostReplyValidationError(_('Gif comment ignored'))How does it know its just a gif though?
def reply_is_just_link_to_gif_reaction(body) -> bool: tmp_body = body.strip() if tmp_body.startswith('https://media.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media1.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media2.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media3.tenor.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://i.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://i.imgflip.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media1.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media2.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media3.giphy.com/') or \ tmp_body.startswith('https://media4.giphy.com/'): return True else: return FalseI'm not even sure someone would actually drop a link like this directly into a comment. It's not even taking into consideration whether those URLs are part of a markdown image tag.
As Edie mentioned, if someone has a user blocked, and that user replies to someone, their comment is dropped:
if parent_comment.author.has_blocked_user(user.id) or parent_comment.author.has_blocked_instance(user.instance_id): log_incoming_ap(id, APLOG_CREATE, APLOG_FAILURE, saved_json, 'Parent comment author blocked replier') return NoneFor Example:
- Cowbees comment on lemmy.ml: https://lemmy.ml/post/41587312/23288779
- Non-existent on piefed.social: https://piefed.social/comment/9647830
(see Edies original comment here)
More from Edie:
Also add if the poster has blocked you! It is exactly as nonsense as you think.
Example:
I made a post in testing@piefed.social from my account testingpiefed@piefed.social, replied to it from my other testingpiefed@piefed.zip account. Since the .social account has blocked the .zip, it doesn't show up on .social, nor on e.g. piefed.europe.pub.
I then made a comment from my lemmy.ml account, and replied to it from my piefed.zip account, and neither .social, nor europe.pub can see my .zip reply, but can see my lemmy.ml comment!
[ Let me add more clarity here: what this feature does is two things. On a local instance, if you block someone who is on your instance, they cannot reply to you. However, this condition is not federated (yet, it would seem), and so, to get around this "issue", the system will drop comments from being stored in the PieFed database IF the blocked user is remote. This means you end up with "ghost comment chains" on remote instances. There is NEW code as of a few weeks ago, that will send an AUTOMATED mod action against blocked remote users to remove the comment. So long as the community is a local PieFed community, it will federate that mod action to the remote server, removing the comment automatically. For PieFed servers, eventually, they would rather federate the users block list (that's fair), but it would seem this code to send automated mod actions to remove comments due to user blocks is going to stay just for the Lemmy Piefed interaction. I don't really understand why the system simply doesn't prevent the rendering of the comment, instead of stopping it from being stored. It knows the user is blocked, it already checks it, it should then just stop rendering the chain of comments for the given user, prevent notifications from those users, etc. ]
But wait! There's More!
- PieFed defederates from Hexbear.net, Lemmygrad.ml, and Lemmy.ml out of the box.
- The "rational discourse" sidebar that you see on the main instance is hard coded into the system.
Moderators of a community can kick you from a community, which unsubscribes you from it, and does not notify you.This has been removed actually, the API endpoint is still there.- I was going to say that Admins had the ability to add a weight to votes coming from other instances, but the videos that showed this are now gone, and as of v1.5.0 they have removed the instance vote weight feature, claiming it was "unused".
All this to say. Piefed is a silly place, and no one should bother using its software.
... Wow. I mean I already knew there was some questionable stuff with PieFed but this is honestly next level.
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Also fun fact, you can probably upload it to most other piefed instances just fine.
rimu has pretty strong opinions on social media. This filter is optional and can be turned on/off by an admin. Some of my contributions to piefed have been to make filters or features that are strongly opinionated like this optional. For piefed.social specifically though, rimu has all of them on because that is his instance and he runs it the way he wants.
I mean okay sure, you can disable these things. But the fact that they are enabled out of the box in the software as written is a huge red flag.
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Ostensibly they do it to interfere with AI scraping social media comments, but of course it does nothing but make their comments more difficult to read.
Somehow I read them fine.
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Somehow I read them fine.
That's good. They read like someone with a speech impediment in my head.
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I mean okay sure, you can disable these things. But the fact that they are enabled out of the box in the software as written is a huge red flag.
Yeah, it speaks to the developer having a philosophy that is really at odds with the concept of open communication. I'm no free speech absolutist, but some of these restrictions are just ridiculous.
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I mean okay sure, you can disable these things. But the fact that they are enabled out of the box in the software as written is a huge red flag.
I'm sure you will be pleased to know that the filter this post is about and most of the others mentioned in this thread are, in fact, off by default.
![RedWizard [he/him]](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/e3367ca8-5a6b-4b98-be01-f24ccf65d745.gif "RedWizard [he/him]"){kind=avatar}
![irelephant [he/him]](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/0cf354b4-4275-4895-a1ec-d194978a2b32.webp "irelephant [he/him]"){kind=avatar}
![∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name]](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/1adef085-c064-4ad2-9fc8-1c860e1aaab6.webp "∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name]"){kind=avatar}
![Luminous5481 [they/them]](https://anarchist.nexus/static/media/users/yc/Wr/ycWroBKDfNA6EJg.png "Luminous5481 [they/them]"){kind=avatar}
