we need more users
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This site is seemingly for hardcore left-leaning people. Center and right wing are censored, banned, without violating rules, just like reddit mods. So it's no wonder people are leaving.
Yes that is the reason.
Not because of the many other reasons like we don't have an algorithm set to be as addicting as possible, dark patterns, rage bait, millions of dollars in marketing and astro-turfing, so many other things that go into your average popular social media network - there is a reason facebook has so many employees.
No no it's because right wingers get their fee fees hurt when people don't abide their rhetoric.
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If you've ever actually discoursed with Cowbee, note how they ignore the large majority of what you say and hyper-focus exclusively on the talking points that they are trying to convey. It's not a "conversation", it is evangelism.
note how they ignore the large majority of what you say and hyper-focus exclusively on the talking points that they are trying to convey
Thats like 9 out of 10 debates on Lemmy regardless of community. Everyone thinks they are the exception.
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I've been one of the people saying "we don't need more users. we need quality over quantity" and i was wrong.
the way it's going, lemmy needs active users who post content sothat the network stays relevant. networks like the fediverse benefit from network effects and that means that if we have more users, that improves the value and quality of the fediverse overall.
So please, everyone, when you can, make advertisement for the fediverse in your personal area. Go talk to friends, make attractive stickers and put them everywhere, stuff like that. We would all benefit from it.
edit: source for the graph
…I am drifting away from Lemmy myself.
Political communities are echo chambers like Reddit, in a different color. Discussing tech or helping others is better, but still feels like talking in circles.
Wholesome subs like /c/SuperBowl are sublime, but I mostly lurk there.
Information hygiene is awful. Big subs upvote tabloids and Tweets to the sky, as long as they align with their beliefs. I just saw a discussion on a not-obviously AI generated photo with the community sentiment of “misinformation? Who cares. It’s a pro-lefty meme, so spread it.”
Anyway, all this scrolling and impulse commenting eats time. I get the same feeling of shouting into a black hole that I get on corporate social media.
Much of this is my fault, though.
I have several niches I intend to make original posts for, but never do.
It’s somewhere in the giant pile of my IRL executive dysfunction :’(
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…I am drifting away from Lemmy myself.
Political communities are echo chambers like Reddit, in a different color. Discussing tech or helping others is better, but still feels like talking in circles.
Wholesome subs like /c/SuperBowl are sublime, but I mostly lurk there.
Information hygiene is awful. Big subs upvote tabloids and Tweets to the sky, as long as they align with their beliefs. I just saw a discussion on a not-obviously AI generated photo with the community sentiment of “misinformation? Who cares. It’s a pro-lefty meme, so spread it.”
Anyway, all this scrolling and impulse commenting eats time. I get the same feeling of shouting into a black hole that I get on corporate social media.
Much of this is my fault, though.
I have several niches I intend to make original posts for, but never do.
It’s somewhere in the giant pile of my IRL executive dysfunction :’(
This is it. People are leaving because there are problems and not enough resources to fix them. Because that's dEcEnTtAlZaTioN.
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so you are saying that each author should represent their own community that they populate with posts each time they post something
I am not sure whether "represent" is the right word here. What I mean is that all posts have a "recipient" (the audience).
For Mastodon, you have public posts where the recipient is literally a "special" audience, called
https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#Public. If you want to see a private message to alice, you just change the "audience" to contain only thehttps://example.com/aliceactor URI.To post to a community, it's the same logic: if you are posting on
fediverse@lemmy.world, then the message has "https://lemmy.world/c/fediverse" as the audience. This message is then sent to lemmy.world and processed. -
George Takei, Mark Hamill, ...
If someone were to create a Markhamill@lemmy.world account, someone else can simply spin up a Markhamill@lemmings.world, and a Markhamill@Markhamilllemmy.world, and so on. Nobody is ever going to believe that any of those are actually Mark Hamill (especially since none are:-).
Doesn't Lemmy have any sort of profile cross-identification like Mastodon has?
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This is it. People are leaving because there are problems and not enough resources to fix them. Because that's dEcEnTtAlZaTioN.
Yeah. We have monkey brains, and overcoming intertia is hard.
I think the site could be better structured to address this, specifically by organizing communities into a “taxonomy,” so posts from niche interest automatically filter up into bigger subs. Thus, participation would feel easier/more enaging, and folks would have more focused and active niches to participate in.
Making that suggestion on the Lemmy/Piefed repos is on my messy todo list.
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Same federation, same posts, same users. Different software doesn't mean anything else changes.
There are an absolute shit-ton of features that PieFed has that Lemmy lacks. To give just one example, PieFed offers "polls", which do not show up on Lemmy since the latter lacks the ability to properly receive them.
Even for the posts that do federate, many features cannot federate in Lemmy, since the latter lacks the entire concept of them - e.g. hashtags, user & post flairs, user labels, limitation of community voting to only subscribers, etc. To give an example there, if a Lemmy community wanted to see fewer posts about USA politics, a moderator only has one option: make a rule and ban users who try it. In contrast a PieFed community could make a community flair and have a much gentler rule that any post about USA politics must use that flair, so that users who did not want to see such could filter them out. PieFed also combines communities into cross-community topic areas, and combines all comments across all cross-posts (identical posts sent to different communities), with the ruleset of the one currently clicked on displayed at the bottom below a post, including the description and the entire set of rules that the mods are asking the members to follow (displayed on each and every single post). Therefore even the identical communities look different when on PieFed, with many enhanced features (caveat: 3rd party apps have not yet adapted to take advantage of most of these features).
https://join-lemmy.org/instances will send you to places like hexbear.net and lemmy.ml, whereas https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser literally never will.
Even federation works differently, allowing a hierarchy of level of "trustedness" beyond simply yes federate fully vs. no defederate entirely. Also PieFed instances more efficiently send out 25x less data per post, and new instances are significantly easier to install and maintain (see e.g. irl stories of https://jeena.net/lemmy-switch-to-piefed and https://slrpnk.net/post/29381524, and don't miss how in both stories there are long-standing issues/bugs that somehow never seem to get fixed...). Feel free to like or dislike whatever you choose but...
Different federation, different posts, slightly different users. Different software means everything is now up to be changed, especially as the software is written in a language that encourages more contributors, and the devs are also much more responsive to feedback.
If you dont like it, fork it. Stop bothering us about it
- source: Nutomic, one of the primary Lemmy devs
Even the very model of interaction on PieFed profoundly differs from Lemmy: e.g. if I wanted to block political posts then I could unsubscribe from all (or most) of them, so that they do not pollute my Subscribed feed on the main page, yet they would all still then be just a click away in the News & Politics Topic Feed, meaning that I can literally both have my cake (no politics) and eat it too (have politics whenever I want). Everything is different here. Check it out if you do not believe me - e.g. your very own instance has a PieFed version.
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No. It's not. That would be hyper destructive to any chances the fediverse has of surviving.
I did not make this up, nor do I think that the sign-up procedure is inherently difficult. But this is something cited by many people over in the bad place, e.g. in r/RedditAlternatives. So it seems relevant to the OP, asking for more users, to cite why they claim that they do not want to come here. Yes the cost may be low, but there still is a cost.
And here I presumed that you meant "signing up", but if we meant to fully switch... yes that is actually super destructive to the Threadiverse in particular, but also is precisely what happens, on all of Lemmy, PieFed, Mbin, and nodeBB too I would presume.
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…I am drifting away from Lemmy myself.
Political communities are echo chambers like Reddit, in a different color. Discussing tech or helping others is better, but still feels like talking in circles.
Wholesome subs like /c/SuperBowl are sublime, but I mostly lurk there.
Information hygiene is awful. Big subs upvote tabloids and Tweets to the sky, as long as they align with their beliefs. I just saw a discussion on a not-obviously AI generated photo with the community sentiment of “misinformation? Who cares. It’s a pro-lefty meme, so spread it.”
Anyway, all this scrolling and impulse commenting eats time. I get the same feeling of shouting into a black hole that I get on corporate social media.
Much of this is my fault, though.
I have several niches I intend to make original posts for, but never do.
It’s somewhere in the giant pile of my IRL executive dysfunction :’(
Yeah I'm turned off from interacting. I got banned (I'm guessing since I can't even reply to people) from world news when Maduro was kidnapped and I mentioned that my Venezuelan friends were hopeful. As this was scary but good news. And my god how I got flamed. Theres no room for conversation I got tagged, replied to, people made fun of me and that's it. I wasn't even allowed to interact anymore so it looks like I just said something and ran away.
I'm not even close to center, yet it's all or nothing with politics here. It's seriously become reddit 2.0. Pathetic.
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I've been one of the people saying "we don't need more users. we need quality over quantity" and i was wrong.
the way it's going, lemmy needs active users who post content sothat the network stays relevant. networks like the fediverse benefit from network effects and that means that if we have more users, that improves the value and quality of the fediverse overall.
So please, everyone, when you can, make advertisement for the fediverse in your personal area. Go talk to friends, make attractive stickers and put them everywhere, stuff like that. We would all benefit from it.
edit: source for the graph
It seems strange that these two curves so closely match eachother in shape.
When 6month active users drop that means 6 months ago a user stopped using the platform.
When monthly active users drop that means a month ago a user stopped using the platform.
So this would suggest that there is a correlation between user attrition 6 months ago and last month. -
Yeah I'm turned off from interacting. I got banned (I'm guessing since I can't even reply to people) from world news when Maduro was kidnapped and I mentioned that my Venezuelan friends were hopeful. As this was scary but good news. And my god how I got flamed. Theres no room for conversation I got tagged, replied to, people made fun of me and that's it. I wasn't even allowed to interact anymore so it looks like I just said something and ran away.
I'm not even close to center, yet it's all or nothing with politics here. It's seriously become reddit 2.0. Pathetic.
Yeah. The .world news community mods don’t seem to care about clickbait, misinformation, calls for violence or doxxing or rape, as long as they’re the “correct” politics. Calling for Ivanka Trump to get shot? Serious deepfake meme? Perfectly acceptable, apparently, in spite of the admins’ pushback.
But make a comment like yours, and the moderation is… that.
I haven’t even blocked the tankie communities or anything, but I had to block /c/politics, as they’re so active they pollute my feed.
I’m fine with leaving that part of Lemmy permanently blocked though.
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Yeah, same here. Let’s try to post more fun content on here
I recently had a long opinion post I made get downvoted. What upset me wasn't that someone disagreed with me, it was that they didn't take the time to explain their own contradicting position, because I wanted to figure out if I had something to learn there.
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I'm a very new user who wanted to give this a chance, here are the friction points from my point of view:
- The onboarding is way too complicated for the average user. A huge part of this is that there are 100 ways to do it. Before you even can start to do anything you have to investigate and then decide on what and how to do it. And even then there is no guidance at all, you are given options and then you can either go and do some research again or try them one by one. You lose at least 90% of the users here already. It doesn't help that fediverse users try to downplay this issue.
- Content discovery sucks ass. My feed stayed mostly the same since I started using Lemmy. I'm presented the same shit over and over again. I'm not sure if it's something that I do wrong, if there is just no content or if that's a side effect of 'no tracking at all' but either way the experience is just bad
- Someone in here already said it, but 'Lemmy' is a horrendous name. That alone was the reason why I didn't bother to try it at all for a long time. Only recent events pushed me towards it but tbh I'm not sure I'll stay.
In short the user experience is abysmal.
Funny enough, a lot of that ends up feeling similar with the move to Linux (and its many distros). It got a very good shift because of Microsoft voluntarily deciding "This OS will be horrible for everyone now." but Reddit hasn't had anything so egregious. Even Linux has a few issues with content/apps from not having enough contributors.
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This site is seemingly for hardcore left-leaning people. Center and right wing are censored, banned, without violating rules, just like reddit mods. So it's no wonder people are leaving.
this site
This isn't a site. It's a collection of sites (instances).
If there is an instance that doesn't tolerate your kind of speech, then choose another instance that does.Be aware that two of the largest hardcore left-leaning instances (hexbear, ml) have been widely defederated (instance-blocked), so it's not fair to say that this only happens to right leaning or centrist ideas.
The beauty (and point) of Lemmy and fediverse is that if you feel like you're being censored, you can join or make an instance of like-minded people, while still having access to the other area if you want it.
Lemmy is uncensorable, but doesn't force people to listen to you. -
Agreed lemme is probably one of the most negative places on the Internet. I joined because I was hoping this place would grow to be a proper alternative for Reddit, with fun niche content, and its own culture of obscure inside jokes. Instead even after several years it still feels like we are the angry trolls living under reddit's shadow.
One of the biggest things I've found that helped me avoid the politics was to leave lemme.world and fill my personal feed up with subscriptions to content that fits my interest. Politics has ways of working its way into content none the less, but at least I've got a fighting chance.
I really do believe lemme is going to struggle to find people who want to stick around unless it starts to embrace fun light hearted content. I'm not sure how we'd do that as a platform, but I do believe that's one of the big reasons people will struggle to adopt this corner of the Internet as their own.
Agreed lemme is probably one of the most negative places on the Internet
parts of lemmy are. cool rocks is pretty positive. there are other positive places. it's one of those GIGO things.
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Hot take: the biggest issue is actually ever entering a community and seeing zero comments. Most reddit addiction stems from wanting to read comments, so I think people should add a comment to something if they're upvoting and they see that the thread has zero comments.
Nothing eliminates enthusiasm like seeing 0 comments on every post in a community, especially if that community is driven by bots.
oh hey, i'm a comment dude. I rarely think up something worth posting, but i'll chat your fingers off. everyone has a place here.
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I've been one of the people saying "we don't need more users. we need quality over quantity" and i was wrong.
the way it's going, lemmy needs active users who post content sothat the network stays relevant. networks like the fediverse benefit from network effects and that means that if we have more users, that improves the value and quality of the fediverse overall.
So please, everyone, when you can, make advertisement for the fediverse in your personal area. Go talk to friends, make attractive stickers and put them everywhere, stuff like that. We would all benefit from it.
edit: source for the graph
I think part of the issue is new users not understanding or feeling comfortable with the fediverse (myself included a while ago). Even after searching for a bit and looking it up I can barely get how it works, but there's really no guide with the common terms anywhere, how to get started, the difference between platforms and what they have in common etc.
The benefits are the first thing you hear about, but they seem more like jargon terms than actually anything functional.Reddit has better accessibility and user retainment, alongside with a library of old posts that are good for searching some niche stuff up.
For example, if I were to get a friend into lemmy, I'm not really sure how I can explain it to them, or where to start other than the copy paste "decentralized" "federated" stuff. It doesn't really answer stuff like who moderates it, develops it, owns it, or what's the difference between lemmy, piefed mbin, how do they interact with each other.
I believe that an introductory "oficial" post on the front of each platform in layman's terms would be great to get new users to stay. -
Fwiw that's a very popular instance you are on, so I think you will likely enjoy it? But if not, then that is the beauty of the Fediverse: you can always hop over to some other one if you wanted.
Like email providers: if gmail doesn't suit you, then switch to another one, or even self-host your own if that sounds appealing:-P.
Note here there is zero advertising: none. Therefore, no incentive to try to "(ab)use" you as the product. Conversely, features offered to you are significantly slower to be developed (honestly PieFed is so very far ahead of Lemmy in that respect, e.g. offering keyword filters such as "Musk" or "Trump", and advanced AI slop detection, etc.). So instead of thinking how different platforms will fall over themselves trying to compete for your "business", think along the lines instead of how you can match up with other like-minded folks. And at some point you'll want to contribute - perhaps code development, or donations, though what the Threadiverse needs most is just participation, as in content posted to it, the more thoughtful the better.
So far you are off to a fantastic start, welcome!
Thanks for the kind reply.
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In doing so you are effectively creating a new Lemmy
Indeed, I am. But to be perfectly honest, I'm doing a lot less work that I original thought in the server side, and when I get to start working on Mastodon compatibility, I will probably just change the internal implementation of mastodon's js sdk.
Right but you understand how this makes fragmentation worse right?
