we need more users
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If you've ever actually discoursed with Cowbee, note how they ignore the large majority of what you say and hyper-focus exclusively on the talking points that they are trying to convey. It's not a "conversation", it is evangelism.
I don't really think this is true, I engage with the entirety of what people say. As far as I know, you have Lemmy.ml blocked on your piefed account, and we haven't interacted in years, so I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from.
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I did not make this up, nor do I think that the sign-up procedure is inherently difficult. But this is something cited by many people over in the bad place, e.g. in r/RedditAlternatives. So it seems relevant to the OP, asking for more users, to cite why they claim that they do not want to come here. Yes the cost may be low, but there still is a cost.
And here I presumed that you meant "signing up", but if we meant to fully switch... yes that is actually super destructive to the Threadiverse in particular, but also is precisely what happens, on all of Lemmy, PieFed, Mbin, and nodeBB too I would presume.
I'm just going to restart my point for clarity.
Any barriers to bringing on users into the fediverse at any level is destructive to the future survival of the fediverse. This is specifically an issue that came up during any of the waves of migration we see from the bad place.
At various times there have been bans, both temp and outright, for all kinds of reasons, for both agreeable and disagreeable reasons, but regardless the impact is destructive to the fediverse.
Social networks thrive on users and through scaling aquire different properties. It's more about the math of what it takes to keep a stable network and there is no getting around that. The "come one come all" approach things like the bad place use allows them to capture that kind of growth and without it, it's just not possible to have the kind of detailed and varied and populated network you would get otherwise.
There have been specific moderation choices that have significantly curtailed and hurt the growth of the fediverse on all sides. Defederation is a huge one. Overly dogmatic moderation is another.
Like I agree that I don't want tankies content or their spam, but realistically the "tankie"-verse versus the rest-of-us-verse has crippled the projects growth.
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i think the main issue is that bluesky/mastodon are user-centric (like Twitter) while Lemmy is content-centric (like Reddit) i wrote about this here: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/52567886
Sure, these are two very different usability paradigms, but I think they are very well integrated by treating both groups and users on Lemmy as users on Mastodon. Mastodon and Lemmy are the vanilla examples, but a.gup.pe and mbin in show that the two coexist quite smoothly. It is "only" a question of how to map this onto BridgyFed.
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Tell your musician friends to find me here:
https://lemmy.world/c/IndepthIndie
Actually, you know what? I'll give a free guitar lesson to the first 10 people to make a post in that group.
aw damn i'm a commenter more than a poster. I could use a good resource on theory beyond the circle of fifths though i'm a total novice.
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I've been one of the people saying "we don't need more users. we need quality over quantity" and i was wrong.
the way it's going, lemmy needs active users who post content sothat the network stays relevant. networks like the fediverse benefit from network effects and that means that if we have more users, that improves the value and quality of the fediverse overall.
So please, everyone, when you can, make advertisement for the fediverse in your personal area. Go talk to friends, make attractive stickers and put them everywhere, stuff like that. We would all benefit from it.
edit: source for the graph
My two cents is that more users oughta establish new communities when they find the absence of one. Even if they don't have the time to devote for fully moderating it, as people join the responsibilities can be allocated among the early adopters. Especially those with strong political and moral backgrounds (to mitigate abuses of power like those infamously cultivated at Reddit).
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âŚI am drifting away from Lemmy myself.
Political communities are echo chambers like Reddit, in a different color. Discussing tech or helping others is better, but still feels like talking in circles.
Wholesome subs like /c/SuperBowl are sublime, but I mostly lurk there.
Information hygiene is awful. Big subs upvote tabloids and Tweets to the sky, as long as they align with their beliefs. I just saw a discussion on a not-obviously AI generated photo with the community sentiment of âmisinformation? Who cares. Itâs a pro-lefty meme, so spread it.â
Anyway, all this scrolling and impulse commenting eats time. I get the same feeling of shouting into a black hole that I get on corporate social media.
Much of this is my fault, though.
I have several niches I intend to make original posts for, but never do.
Itâs somewhere in the giant pile of my IRL executive dysfunction :â(
I don't like how broad Lemmy assumes default interests are, though then again showing everyone the average interests may statistically be the best initialization point.
Every time I'm shown a community I'm totally uninterested I make sure to go in and block it from my feed. Likewise with aggressive or otherwise pathological users. It gets better.
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Yeah, and at least Reddit sent notifications to tell people that their content was removed. Also there's a modmail allowing people to ask questions. Also a post was merely removed from the community stream, but allowing discussions in it to continue including answers as to why it was removed, rather than deleted entirely and for all eternity, destroying all of the conversations that had taken place therein, even between users unrelated to the person posting that supposedly triggered the removal, i.e. innocent bystanders.
Lemmy has turned out to be just as if not more authoritarian than Reddit - not to the instance admins tbf but to the individual users. And moreover, the amount of such seems to mainly increase over time, e.g. mod names are now obscured in the modmail even if you go looking into it, and soon Lemmy.ml will become baked into the codebase as the source of new communities, giving it veto power if it wants a new instance to not sign up to anything defederated from lemmy.ml. Centralized, authoritarian control is not what most of us signed up for when attempting to flee Reddit.
Fortunately PieFed is fighting that trend mightily, e.g. allowing democratization of moderation features. Though even PieFed does not send a notification when someone is banned or their content removed (in this case though likely just low priority as it is still being developed, at a much quicker pace than Lemmy, rather than with lemmy.ml being an actual choice to do things a certain way).
We can create our own Lemmy instances though, and with piefed, we are on our way to a better Reddit!
And with America rouge, Reddit will go up in a Mushroom cloud anyway.
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Piefed seems to have its own share of issues, not using ActivityPub protocols which play nice with the rest of the Fediverse (Lemmy, Mastodon etc) for new features and instead prioritizing on their own platform and seeing the Fediverse as a secondary thing.
well it seems they are not using Industry Standards
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Aww man i would really like that guitar lessons! But i don't have enough knowledge/context to post in that community (yet)
Don't worry about it. Honestly. Just post a song and tell us what you like about it. That's good enough. Maybe later you can keep us updated on your guitar progress!
(Hmmm... I always suspected the "In-depth" in the group's name was maybe a little intimidating haha)
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aw damn i'm a commenter more than a poster. I could use a good resource on theory beyond the circle of fifths though i'm a total novice.
I've used this one quite a bit: https://musictheory.pugetsound.edu/
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Names are a discrete and contested domain and honestly I don't see how Lemmy being also a person is a hindrance. Coke is also a drug yet no one complains, certainly not the big corpo.
Protip: you can search for more than one word on search providers. Something like "lemmy social" or "lemmy server" for example.
It just makes it more annoying to search for anything lemmy related
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I've been one of the people saying "we don't need more users. we need quality over quantity" and i was wrong.
the way it's going, lemmy needs active users who post content sothat the network stays relevant. networks like the fediverse benefit from network effects and that means that if we have more users, that improves the value and quality of the fediverse overall.
So please, everyone, when you can, make advertisement for the fediverse in your personal area. Go talk to friends, make attractive stickers and put them everywhere, stuff like that. We would all benefit from it.
edit: source for the graph
Wait till Reddit fucks up again, there will be an influx of users.
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I've been one of the people saying "we don't need more users. we need quality over quantity" and i was wrong.
the way it's going, lemmy needs active users who post content sothat the network stays relevant. networks like the fediverse benefit from network effects and that means that if we have more users, that improves the value and quality of the fediverse overall.
So please, everyone, when you can, make advertisement for the fediverse in your personal area. Go talk to friends, make attractive stickers and put them everywhere, stuff like that. We would all benefit from it.
edit: source for the graph
The culture wars have reached the fediverse, and it's making me less happy to be here. I don't want to hang out in places where people use slurs and insults, even if they're not aimed at me. I'm seeing more casual misogyny/misandry, more casual use of the r**** slur, more perfectionist gatekeeping, more assumptions, and just less good-faith comments in general.
I'd advertise, but I'm starting to look for an alternative to lemmy.
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I don't like how broad Lemmy assumes default interests are, though then again showing everyone the average interests may statistically be the best initialization point.
Every time I'm shown a community I'm totally uninterested I make sure to go in and block it from my feed. Likewise with aggressive or otherwise pathological users. It gets better.
Lemmy doesnât assume anything. Sorting is done by votes or activity from all communities; the intent is for the user to subscribe to communities to curate their feed. But blocking works too.
I donât know precisely how Reddit works now, but it used to be like that as well. There was no interest algorithm, no suggestions, other than a bit of vote count nonlinearity. It just had the quirk of defaulting to a few select subs in âhot,â instead of âallâ like most Lemmy/Piefed instances do.
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Right but you understand how this makes fragmentation worse right?
How? My server would be able to talk with any of the existing projects and talk native ActivityPub. It can even bridge to other protocols without forcing them to change anything on their side.
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Agreed lemme is probably one of the most negative places on the Internet. I joined because I was hoping this place would grow to be a proper alternative for Reddit, with fun niche content, and its own culture of obscure inside jokes. Instead even after several years it still feels like we are the angry trolls living under reddit's shadow.
One of the biggest things I've found that helped me avoid the politics was to leave lemme.world and fill my personal feed up with subscriptions to content that fits my interest. Politics has ways of working its way into content none the less, but at least I've got a fighting chance.
I really do believe lemme is going to struggle to find people who want to stick around unless it starts to embrace fun light hearted content. I'm not sure how we'd do that as a platform, but I do believe that's one of the big reasons people will struggle to adopt this corner of the Internet as their own.
I guess the problem are the users (you and me) or better or use of plattforms itself.
On reddit I tended to be lurker. And if most of us are the few which actually POST content are the those with strong (mostly political) views who are willing to commit to their cause by flooding the zone with political fights.
Coclusion:
If we want a cozy lemmy we need to join/start non-political, subject specific communities and actually CONTRIBUTE something instead of just consuming. Otherwise this cluster of plattforms will end up like all the other due to the same reasons. -
There are an absolute shit-ton of features that PieFed has that Lemmy lacks. To give just one example, PieFed offers "polls", which do not show up on Lemmy since the latter lacks the ability to properly receive them.
Even for the posts that do federate, many features cannot federate in Lemmy, since the latter lacks the entire concept of them - e.g. hashtags, user & post flairs, user labels, limitation of community voting to only subscribers, etc. To give an example there, if a Lemmy community wanted to see fewer posts about USA politics, a moderator only has one option: make a rule and ban users who try it. In contrast a PieFed community could make a community flair and have a much gentler rule that any post about USA politics must use that flair, so that users who did not want to see such could filter them out. PieFed also combines communities into cross-community topic areas, and combines all comments across all cross-posts (identical posts sent to different communities), with the ruleset of the one currently clicked on displayed at the bottom below a post, including the description and the entire set of rules that the mods are asking the members to follow (displayed on each and every single post). Therefore even the identical communities look different when on PieFed, with many enhanced features (caveat: 3rd party apps have not yet adapted to take advantage of most of these features).
https://join-lemmy.org/instances will send you to places like hexbear.net and lemmy.ml, whereas https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser literally never will.
Even federation works differently, allowing a hierarchy of level of "trustedness" beyond simply yes federate fully vs. no defederate entirely. Also PieFed instances more efficiently send out 25x less data per post, and new instances are significantly easier to install and maintain (see e.g. irl stories of https://jeena.net/lemmy-switch-to-piefed and https://slrpnk.net/post/29381524, and don't miss how in both stories there are long-standing issues/bugs that somehow never seem to get fixed...). Feel free to like or dislike whatever you choose but...
Different federation, different posts, slightly different users. Different software means everything is now up to be changed, especially as the software is written in a language that encourages more contributors, and the devs are also much more responsive to feedback.
If you dont like it, fork it. Stop bothering us about it
- source: Nutomic, one of the primary Lemmy devs
Even the very model of interaction on PieFed profoundly differs from Lemmy: e.g. if I wanted to block political posts then I could unsubscribe from all (or most) of them, so that they do not pollute my Subscribed feed on the main page, yet they would all still then be just a click away in the News & Politics Topic Feed, meaning that I can literally both have my cake (no politics) and eat it too (have politics whenever I want). Everything is different here. Check it out if you do not believe me - e.g. your very own instance has a PieFed version.
https://join-lemmy.org/instances will send you to places like hexbear.net and lemmy.ml, whereas https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser literally never will.
Honestly I think this is a problem. I don't think the instance picker should be so opinionated that it blocks (legal) instances. I want extremist to be directed away from the normie and moderate instances. I prefer to clearly characterize instances and let people pick their own, while also providing opinion for people who don't care or lack understanding.
Although this is clearly a point of preference, and I can see why some people would prefer the opposite to possibly prevent the radicalization of a moderate.
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Don't worry about it. Honestly. Just post a song and tell us what you like about it. That's good enough. Maybe later you can keep us updated on your guitar progress!
(Hmmm... I always suspected the "In-depth" in the group's name was maybe a little intimidating haha)
it was more a joke about the "free guitar lessons" - well, now i only need a guitar to begin
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Itâs quality and quantity. The quality has held despite a drop in users. Just wait and let Reddit have another controversy and weâll get another infusion of converts. Popularity may only threaten more bots and scams.
The quality has held despite a drop in users.
I feel like I'm going mental over here because this has not been my experience. The quality has always been spotty, but the last few months I've noticed more and more posts linking to awful "news" rags or no source at all. Worse, I rarely see people questioning the lack of quality information, simply gobbling it up because it aligns with their world view. Plus 70% of the comments on this platform could be generated by a classic r/subredditsimulator style bot and nothing would change; the same 5 points about AI, capitalism, and Linux are made in every thread in the exact same style every day.
And yes I'm mostly talking about news communities because Linux comms are usually fine but repetitive and while I'd love to interact with non-news content there just... isn't much being made.
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âŚI am drifting away from Lemmy myself.
Political communities are echo chambers like Reddit, in a different color. Discussing tech or helping others is better, but still feels like talking in circles.
Wholesome subs like /c/SuperBowl are sublime, but I mostly lurk there.
Information hygiene is awful. Big subs upvote tabloids and Tweets to the sky, as long as they align with their beliefs. I just saw a discussion on a not-obviously AI generated photo with the community sentiment of âmisinformation? Who cares. Itâs a pro-lefty meme, so spread it.â
Anyway, all this scrolling and impulse commenting eats time. I get the same feeling of shouting into a black hole that I get on corporate social media.
Much of this is my fault, though.
I have several niches I intend to make original posts for, but never do.
Itâs somewhere in the giant pile of my IRL executive dysfunction :â(
the only way to not have an echo chamber where people vote with their emotions is to have an enlightened gnosticism user-base which is obviously very difficult to get and nurture but i'm trying
the best way to do this is to cultivate an atmosphere of discussion and in-depth thought regularly, which you can do by engaging with these discussions and seeking enlightenment yourself.
![Cowbee [he/they]](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/c18ce632-5fb5-4888-8226-3dc55a07acc4.jpeg "Cowbee [he/they]"){kind=avatar}
