Chinese propaganda is rampant on the fediverse
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Chinese propaganda is rampant on the fediverse. We need to discuss ways to combat this. One group- memes or something is wholly controlled by Chinese state actors. What do you think?
What’s rampant is imperial core propaganda. You see the “Chinese propaganda” as “rampant” because you’re used to seeing only imperial core propaganda, which is how the internet looks on corporate media, including corporate social media.
The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.
The new post-Trump/“post-truth” media literacy curricula won’t teach it to you either, because it was paid for and crafted by the US military-industrial complex: New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’.
This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.
- Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine
- Propaganda model
- Edward Bernays
- Walter Lippmann
- Council on Foreign Relations
- Powell Memorandum
- The Trilateral Commission’s report, The Crisis of Democracy
* I’ve criticized MBFC & Ad Fontes before:
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This was true until I realized they're all over. Anything even remotely pertaining to China is flooded with the Chinese state actors reply guys and bots. In effect, using the protocols strength against itself. Is the protocol itself even able to be banned in China? Are they seriously active on here just to push their bullshit China marketing even harder. They've gone all out the last five years.
Anything even remotely pertaining to China is flooded with the Chinese state actors reply guys and bots.
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Not dominated by Chinese, Russian nor Western state actors. That's all I'm asking for. Where truth isn't censored.
I've been pretty happy here on lemmy.zip. We haven't defederated from the tankie instances so you still see their content sometimes, but you can always filter them yourself. Same with the zionists on lemmy.world.
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Lemmy.ml is?!? That's who I signed up for though. I like the privacy stuff. So which instance is politically neutral but technically aligned, pirate party, self hosting etc?
So which instance is politically neutral
There is no such thing as “politically neutral.” What you perceive as neutral is that which is hegemonic.
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It's widely-know. Just have to look at the post history of the creators. Particularly Desalines or whatever.
It’s widely-know.
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What I've noticed:
- The posts themselves follow almost identical structure. Large quotes with poster emphasis.
- The posting topics is almost identical.
- The reliability of sources is hit-or-miss on all posts. Some are from legit sources, some are from really questionable ones. The questionable ones are common between accounts.
- The communities where they're all active are the same. Lately there's a bit more separation where some accounts frequent some communities more than others. E.g. some time ago we used to get Hotznplotzn, randomname and Scotty in !Canada. Now we mostly get Scotty.
- When you engage in conversation the lang expression, attitude and arguments are identical. This when I really noticed the pattern.
- I've had multiple accounts from this set group up/down vote their/mine comments, deep into a discussion that didn't attract other up/down votes.
- I've had a discussion that reached a dead end with one account, only for another to show up and restart it from a different angle attempting to reach a different conclusion. E.g. first discuss an economic side of some China-related issue, reach a dead end, restart with human rights abuses side on the same topic. That's while having the group up/down voting action going on.
- Two of the accounts were created on the same date, on two different instances, a few minutes away from each other. This was the smoking gun for me that this is the same person.
Some of these aren't damning on their own, but put altogether make me believe it's one person. Also they never deny that when pressed. The conversation just stops and they disappear for a day or two until the next post.
a disgruntled Hong Kong exile with too much time on their hands
Quite possibly. I think they may live in Germany or be German because I've seen some activity in German. Who knows. I doubt they're a paid actor because there's enough money in the official media machine pushing this line so I think you're right. Someone who really hates China/CCP/CPC, perhaps for a good reason of their own, with a lot of free time. It really sucks because there are really interesting discussions that can be had on any of these topics. There's another guy around here whose family emigrated from China because they weren't having a great time with the 1-child policy among other things. He's in the US and can have rational and interesting discussion about this stuff without bursting in flames.
E: Here's a recent unhinged discussion with Scotty.
Amusing. And what detective work! Your time is valuable, careful not to waste too much of it.
Personally I'm not especially bothered by sockpuppetry in itself (talking of people wasting their time...). But it's obviously important to have a plurality of viewpoints. If only they would sockpuppet more creatively!
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You were temp banned, usually those are for a few days for the person to cool down. The removed comment was part of a chain advocating for the collective punishment of russian civilians
Where did I say civilians? That's just the pretext they used to silence any words against Russia.
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Communists govern the largest economy in the world by PPP, and capitalism is falling apart at the seams as the spoils of imperialism are beginning to be cut off. The global south is escaping underdevelopment, and this is forcing austerity in the west, explaining the surge to the right. In the US Empire, communists are more and more common than ever before:
Famine was ended by communists in Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc. These areas had woefully inefficient systems of agriculture, such as the kulak system, which served to enrich one group of people over the laborers they employed. Collectivization combined with industrialization is why food security was achieved after the introduction of socialism to these countries, and the famines commonly attributed by western historians to communism were the last of a long line of regular famines.
Similarly, purges in the largest majority of cases meant expulsion from the party or position, not execution, except in times of crisis, like the 1930s when fascism was on the rise. They were not done arbitrarily, but as a response to corruption, subterfuge, and sabotage.
It's also a bit silly to suggest that people spent "40 years trying to escape communism." Right up to the end, the majority of people in the USSR wished to retain both the USSR and the system of socialism. This is proven not just from eyewitness reports of support, but also vote totals:
Moreover, after the fall of socialism in Europe, the majority of people want it back or say they are worse off. This is compounded by the fact that over 90% of the Chinese population supports their government and system. Socialist countries run by communists have higher approval rates than capitalist states.
Looking at Adam Tooze, I don't see much indicating him as a former communist. He grew up in West Germany in the height of the Cold War, is trained in liberal economics such as Keynesian economics, though his grandfather was allegedly a soviet recruiter, which is cool. I'm not really convinced I could find much out of his mini-series on Luxemburg, Trotsky, Stalin, or Lenin, considering I've already read works both by them and about them in greater detail than a podcast is going to cover.
I don’t see much indicating him as a former communist
He talked about it - some variety of Trotskyism IIRC. A bit of a surprise but shouldn't have been. Tons of former Maoists have been in high positions. Even a neoliberal head of the European Commission (Barroso).
On the supposed virtues of communism, you won't convince me but I suppose you know that already. IMO the world would have done very well to listen to George Orwell, someone who saw through it all on the basis of up-front experience 90 years ago. That might have saved an awful lot of needless suffering. Or Orlando Figes, who wrote a book whose title says it all: "The USSR: A People's Tragedy".
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Amusing. And what detective work! Your time is valuable, careful not to waste too much of it.
Personally I'm not especially bothered by sockpuppetry in itself (talking of people wasting their time...). But it's obviously important to have a plurality of viewpoints. If only they would sockpuppet more creatively!
Yeah, I do spend too much time here but I think it's important to keep the community active because we haven't won the anti-corpo social media war yet. So we have to overcontribute in content, funding, etc. From each according to their ability, etc.
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I don’t see much indicating him as a former communist
He talked about it - some variety of Trotskyism IIRC. A bit of a surprise but shouldn't have been. Tons of former Maoists have been in high positions. Even a neoliberal head of the European Commission (Barroso).
On the supposed virtues of communism, you won't convince me but I suppose you know that already. IMO the world would have done very well to listen to George Orwell, someone who saw through it all on the basis of up-front experience 90 years ago. That might have saved an awful lot of needless suffering. Or Orlando Figes, who wrote a book whose title says it all: "The USSR: A People's Tragedy".
To be fair, I don't think many communists globally are fans of Trotskyism, considering it's predominantly western and liberal-compatible. The vast majority of communists globally are Marxist-Leninists, Trotskyism is seen as more fringe. Trotskyists tend to already begin with anti-AES stances (for a variety of reasons, usually a combination of Red Scare propaganda mixed with alienation from capitalism), so going from "socialism is a good idea but never existed" to "socialism is a bad idea because what's existed hasn't worked" is a common jump. A former Trotskyist making loads of money off of denouncing communism is both entirely predictable and hardly compelling for those who've studied communism in theory and practice.
As for the rapist Eric Blair, also known as George Orwell, the western world listened to him too well. He didn't see through anything, rather, his position as a British fed (known for keeping a journal of people he knew and suspected of being Jewish and/or communists) and propagandist was extremely useful to western intelligence agencies. On Orwell is a good essay going over his dreadfall past and role in propagandizing. Orwell has been taught in countless schools not because of any truth, but because of his utility.
As for Figes, another that earns an enourmous sum of money from preaching the bible of anti-communism to serve capitalist interests, better historians exist. Syzmanski's Is the Red Flag Flying? The Political Economy of the Soviet Union today, Pat Sloan's Soviet Democracy, Human Rights in the Soviet Union, Anna Louise Strong's This Soviet World, Mary Stevenson Callcott's Russian Justice, the recently deceased Dr. Michael Parenti's Blackshirts and Reds, all the way up to Professor Roland Boer's Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance, there's tons of academic resources to get a much better view of socialism in practice.
I don't expect you to read these, of course, my point is that just like you don't expect to change your mind by me sharing evidence counter to your views, I'm unlikely to be swayed by professionals repeating standard anti-communist dogma. It takes a much greater amount of study and reflection to go against the dominant, hegemonic culture, nearly every common anti-communist talking point has been wielded against me at some point simply by me stating that I support socialism.
Is there anything specific you'd like to discuss, regarding the effectiveness of socialism/communism? We can have a constructive conversation surrounding specifics.
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This seems right. Personally I'm not sure I could roll my eyes harder at the fact that so many people in 2026 are so ignorant as to be prepared to call themselves "communists" - after all the famines, the purges, the 40 years in which much of Europe was struggling to escape (literally) from communism... And then I saw that you, too, call yourself a communist! So I guess I'll stop there.
Except to recommend you the Ones and Tooze podcast, in which the brilliant host (an ex-communist) recently did a whole series, in great and illuminating detail, on the various communist thinkers. Which I listened to... dutifully.
Their idol Mao killed approx 160 million humans.
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Uh huh. You know you've got nothing when you're reduced to trying to do the rhetorical version of the "Who's on first" bit.
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It's not even 1 account. It's a collection of sockpuppets. I started noticing them when they started posting in !Canada@lemmy.ca but apparently the streak goes quite further back. The latest ones are Sepia and tardigrade.
I've also suggested changing tactic a bit from being a complete bad-faith asshole to good-faith commenters to at least being nice. Nada.
Ultimately the problem is that the mods for the communities they frequently post to have allowed this to go on for years. They have to know by now what’s going on, and by doing nothing they tacitly endorse it.
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Where did I say civilians? That's just the pretext they used to silence any words against Russia.
Where did I say civilians?
In the linked chain, repeatedly.
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I don’t see much indicating him as a former communist
He talked about it - some variety of Trotskyism IIRC. A bit of a surprise but shouldn't have been. Tons of former Maoists have been in high positions. Even a neoliberal head of the European Commission (Barroso).
On the supposed virtues of communism, you won't convince me but I suppose you know that already. IMO the world would have done very well to listen to George Orwell, someone who saw through it all on the basis of up-front experience 90 years ago. That might have saved an awful lot of needless suffering. Or Orlando Figes, who wrote a book whose title says it all: "The USSR: A People's Tragedy".
On the supposed virtues of communism, you won’t convince me
Just straight up admitting your anti-communism is an unshakable article of faith that no argument or evidence can change.
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Their idol Mao killed approx 160 million humans.
Damn, out jerking the black book of communism by an order of magnitude. You're really going for it
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Uh huh. You know you've got nothing when you're reduced to trying to do the rhetorical version of the "Who's on first" bit.
I agree. Why did you do that?
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Chinese propaganda is rampant on the fediverse. We need to discuss ways to combat this. One group- memes or something is wholly controlled by Chinese state actors. What do you think?
Go on then, git!!
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Lol. I know you are but what am I?
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Chinese propaganda is rampant on the fediverse. We need to discuss ways to combat this. One group- memes or something is wholly controlled by Chinese state actors. What do you think?
Days in the fediverse comm without explicit anti-communism and red scare fearmongering: 0
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