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Ubisoft target audience when they play a good game

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  • Y yermaw@sh.itjust.works

    not enough ammo

    Once you get the gravity gun you dont need ammo. I only switched to the actual guns just to say I did. The gravity gun is so OP its not even funny.

    prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP This user is from outside of this forum
    prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP This user is from outside of this forum
    prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
    wrote last edited by prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
    #57

    I didn't use the gravity gun as much as standard weapons since most of the objects available to shoot with it are usually quite large which obscured the view of the target (not a problem close up, but mid range and farther I'd have trouble with it), and I found it really janky to use in tighter spaces like hallways or smaller rooms, where the object being held would get caught up on the terrain or doorways.

    handrails would also deflect objects shot with it, and a lot of the times when ambushed with a combat encounter, I wasn't scanning the area for objects to pick up while being shot at, I would just engage immediately and return fire.

    It's a cool gadget, and perhaps others got past the issues I had with using it effectively, but overall I preferred just using a standard weapon, and in that realm the ones that were fun to use had little ammo, leaving me with the very weak pistol and smg, which I didn't find terribly fun.

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net

      From what I recall, I didn't really enjoy using the gravity gun all that much since bigger objects had a tendency to clip terrain if they weren't aimed quite right, and thus miss the enemy I was aiming at, which prompted me to switch back to the other weapons to finish off a gunfight. Admittedly that might've been just a me problem, and others had more success using it (I know the sawblades with the gravity gun were quite accurate and easy to use in ravenholm, but I don't think they show up much after that area).

      I felt like most of the game doesn't really give you enough ammo with the non-standard weapons to really use them outside of one or two bigger fights, then I'd be back down to the smg, pistol, or shotgun (which I also felt was a little under powered unless you used the alt fire, but that chewed through ammo too quickly to be viable most of the time).

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      katana314@lemmy.world
      wrote last edited by
      #58

      It tends not to give you enough to last an entire fight with the ammo you have on hand, but usually if you're pushed into an arena, it will have ammo and health laying around - and not the light stuff, either. The game was coming from a Doom 3 era when ammo searching was not just a known habit, but could be done during a fight to keep you moving, so it's perhaps an implied assumption they made from the time. But, teaching players anything while they're under fire is going to be a very uphill battle I suppose.

      prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP 1 Reply Last reply
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      • T Tar_Alcaran

        “What the…how long have I been gone? What the hell happened to Earth?”

        But, you KNOW what happened to the Earth. What would spelling it out add to the story, except replacing the wonder and accomplishment with a boring bit of exposition.

        Having Gordon be a silent protagonist adds hugely to the first person experience of the game. Sure, you can add dialog and questions and elaborate, but that would detract from the experience. Picasso could have also added pointers to each of the characters in Guernica to explain how they relate to the bombing of the city, and it would make the painting a lot clearer... and a lot worse.

        I want to compare Half-Life with SOMA here (so spoilers for both). They're both great experiences, but Gordon is silent while Simon won't shut up. Simon needs to asks questions because the story requires you to understand some things, and some people need very basic explanations. When I played SOMA, I kept waiting for there to be a secret plottwist that Simon was copied incorrectly and was thus either braindamaged, or modified not to recognise reality for a specific purpose. No, that didn't happen, Simon is instead an absolute moron who completely fails to realize that everyone constantly being copied means that he too will be copied instead of having his mind relocated. The game treats this as some kind of big realization, when it was in fact absolutely blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention. It's literally the core of the game. Simon, being a moron, then takes this out on the person helping him, because he's a moron.

        Not only is the main character an idiot, I'm being railroaded into taking decisions that are stupid, which are then reacted to as if I couldn't possibly have foreseen this, implying I (the player) am probably really stupid too. That was a huge detraction in SOMA. Simon is an idiot for the sole purpose of getting the information to you, the player, because apparently you need to be informed like you're some kind of idiot too.

        On the other hand, Gordon doesn't talk. That's a BIG restriction, but it also means you don't even have to option to ask questions. On the other hand, you don't need to; all the reasonable questions you might have are answered in the game by environmental storytelling. Who are the combine? Well, we see them beating up random humans, speaking a weird garbled message, we hear speeches by Breen, we see the combine raid random apartments. It's very clear who they are without Gordon needing to ask about it. It's like starting a book in medias res, which is quite common in writing.

        Half-Life 2 assumes you can make connections, and you need to do so because Gordon doesn't talk. SOMA assumes you're an idiot, and reinforces that constantly by Simon talking to people like an idiot.

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        katana314@lemmy.world
        wrote last edited by
        #59

        That feels like a bit of a hate train on SOMA that's not really relevant. We often dislike character idiocy, especially when it's our player. But speaking protagonists can be done well - Dead Space 2 made the move, and even ported it back when they finally did a DS1 remake.

        Perhaps the only major issue with using environmental storytelling to give City 17's base exposition is that the game is both a sequel, and intended as an entry point. I remember as a kid playing HL2 (with very little knowledge of HL1) and as soon as I saw the aliens in gas masks corralling everyone, really wondered what sort of story I missed in the first one. Leaving people to figure things out is definitely cool, I'm just offering ways to point out clearly that you, the player, didn't miss anything key, because in today's media deluge, often the reason for that feeling is because a story is slapdash and poorly written - as opposed to simply hiding the details in plain sight for the player to find.

        Interestingly, there are some notes in an art book where the G-Man originally gave a longer opening speech to explain what's happened in your absence, but they removed it. Overall it was probably the right move, but I'm curious how it would have felt.

        T 1 Reply Last reply
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        • F frongt@lemmy.zip

          They don't question it because all kinds of weird interdimensional shit is going down. But they absolutely react with surprise when you first show up.

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          katana314@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #60

          I mean, Kleiner saying "I had expected more warning!" is a sort of mixed surprise. If he's been gone for 20+ years, the natural reaction I might expect is "What...? That's impossible! We all thought you were dead! Or lost in Xen forever!" Heck, even Kleiner's reaction to the "slow teleport" you and Alyx take late in the game is much grander. "I had...given up hope of ever seeing you again!!"

          F 1 Reply Last reply
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          • K katana314@lemmy.world

            It tends not to give you enough to last an entire fight with the ammo you have on hand, but usually if you're pushed into an arena, it will have ammo and health laying around - and not the light stuff, either. The game was coming from a Doom 3 era when ammo searching was not just a known habit, but could be done during a fight to keep you moving, so it's perhaps an implied assumption they made from the time. But, teaching players anything while they're under fire is going to be a very uphill battle I suppose.

            prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP This user is from outside of this forum
            prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP This user is from outside of this forum
            prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
            wrote last edited by prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
            #61

            The problem is that the heavier weapons like the combine rifle are only introduced in the later part of the game from what I remember (I think I stopped somewhere around the antlions last time), where as it seemed like the first half was limited to the crappy weapons, interspersed with some magnum revolver ammo as a treat. By the time I would get access to the good weapons, I'd usually have already lost my enthusiasm to continue. If I had connected more with the story I could look past all that, but since that part just wasn't engaging with me, the combat needed to carry the experience, which it just wasn't able to do in my particular case.

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            • G Goodeye8

              Not to play the devils advocate but they do have an argument. Not in the physics point because physics haven't been done to death so that part of Half-life 2 IMO is still fresh. But the rest of Half-life 2 can be dull and boring and nonsensical if played today. Half-life 2 was such a cultural shift that everything great about it has been dissected, analyzed and improved upon wherever possible.

              Much like Half-life 1 the things that made the game great are industry standard now. You're used to the greatness so all you see are the flaws. The boat section is too long, the car section is poorly paced, the story is too cryptic, the list probably goes on. But anyone who played it at launch knows how fucking sick the game is because there was nothing else like it.

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              teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
              wrote last edited by teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
              #62

              That's an insane claim to me. HL2 set the bar for worldbuilding. From the guy muttering "don't drink the water" in the train station, to the people and vortigaunts building homes in the sewers, to the stick legged stalkers waddling around the citadel, HL2 took "show don't tell" to heart. It was the most immersive experience anyone had played in a video game up to that point, or for years after.

              I'll grant you that other games have learned a lot from it, but I would say the vast majority haven't. Games still come out today where everything needs to be spoonfed to the player literally for them to stop and process what they're looking at, instead of just running and gunning mindlessly.

              When you say HL2 can be boring and nonsensical if played today, the first thing that comes to mind are all the people who turn movie subtitles on, and then for 75% of the runtime their eyes are in the bottom 1/3 of the screen, not taking in any of the visual information the filmmaker is putting in front of them. Like, yeah, HL2 is quite boring when you're not looking at it.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • K katana314@lemmy.world

                That feels like a bit of a hate train on SOMA that's not really relevant. We often dislike character idiocy, especially when it's our player. But speaking protagonists can be done well - Dead Space 2 made the move, and even ported it back when they finally did a DS1 remake.

                Perhaps the only major issue with using environmental storytelling to give City 17's base exposition is that the game is both a sequel, and intended as an entry point. I remember as a kid playing HL2 (with very little knowledge of HL1) and as soon as I saw the aliens in gas masks corralling everyone, really wondered what sort of story I missed in the first one. Leaving people to figure things out is definitely cool, I'm just offering ways to point out clearly that you, the player, didn't miss anything key, because in today's media deluge, often the reason for that feeling is because a story is slapdash and poorly written - as opposed to simply hiding the details in plain sight for the player to find.

                Interestingly, there are some notes in an art book where the G-Man originally gave a longer opening speech to explain what's happened in your absence, but they removed it. Overall it was probably the right move, but I'm curious how it would have felt.

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                Tar_Alcaran
                wrote last edited by tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works
                #63

                That feels like a bit of a hate train on SOMA that’s not really relevant. We often dislike character idiocy, especially when it’s our player. But speaking protagonists can be done well - Dead Space 2 made the move, and even ported it back when they finally did a DS1 remake.

                Yeah, the DS1 remake had Isaac talking, and they did it pretty decently because he's not constantly surrounded by people who have answers to questions that Isaac has. The game is still about finding out what happened, and nobody can answer that, so you can't talk about it. You're discovering it with Isaac AND the other survivors. In DS2 you can't really ask all that many questions about unitology, because people don't really know the answers either.

                But it would ruin all the interesting stuff about HL2's history discovery. If someone just tells you "Oh yeah, the combine conquered the earth, and now they're using these hybrid soldiers to suppress humanity after their military conquest, and their citadel is slowly expanding an ever more repressed population in this city" that's not nearly as interesting as finding it out. But if Gordon asks, anyone would know the info, because they lived through it. By having a silent protagonist, people can just assume Gordon's been around and knows this stuff, and not magically kidnapped by a supernatural magic guy in a suit who keeps mysteriously following him around. Half the fun in HL2 is figuring out the world, it's a core concept of the game. You learn something for yourself, you figure it out by putting it togehter. Having G-Man spell it out would remove the fun. And having Gordon spell it out for the player would definitely detract from the game too. HL2 really hit that level of natural discovery, and making it optional to the game enjoyment.

                Of course, launching it today removes a lot of the fun too, since there will just be 5000 youtubers repeating eachother about the game.

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                • Goddess of SpeedS Goddess of Speed
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                  papstjl4u@lemmy.world
                  wrote last edited by
                  #64

                  I expected a really bad take, but this is not it. HL2 has strength, but the story is not it. It's okay, but I want you to remember that the ending of HL2 is just not good - neither to 'boss fight' nor the deus ex machina ending.

                  Even the gameplay gets boring when you have the "op" gravity gun.

                  I prefer HL1 to HL2. The physics riddles are not hard either and I think Stratholm is only "horror" for people with no xp in Survival Horror games.

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                  • Goddess of SpeedS Goddess of Speed
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                    hissing meerkat
                    wrote last edited by
                    #65

                    Half-Life 2 would be a mediocre game if you lacked empathy for people in conditions where the protagonist (the player) starts.

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                    • B beardededsquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                      Its world building and such is visual story telling.

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                      palmtreeisbesttree@lemmy.world
                      wrote last edited by
                      #66

                      It’s much more rare nowadays in new video games that have this style of physics or visual storytelling. It’s a game that will always be a fresh experience to me anytime I replay it.

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                      • Goddess of SpeedS Goddess of Speed
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                        Malle_YenoM This user is from outside of this forum
                        Malle_YenoM This user is from outside of this forum
                        Malle_Yeno
                        wrote last edited by
                        #67

                        Okay but like, Half Life 2 is similar to Citizen Kane.

                        A revolutionary piece of media for its time that brought the medium as a whole forward.

                        And kind of a slog to get through now because we learned a lot of lessons about the medium since then.

                        Like I'm sorry, but you're not going to convince me that the strider fights on your way to the citadel were actually good and definitely not a painful chapter that soured a lot of people ln the game. And Water Hazard is infamous for being very uninteresting to the point that people that play half life now joke about it.

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                        • PrivateNoobP PrivateNoob

                          He said that he played through it in PS3 back in the day

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                          FiniteBanjo
                          wrote last edited by
                          #68

                          Can Godmode be toggled in PS3?

                          PrivateNoobP 1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • S schmuppes@lemmy.today

                            Watch Dogs 2 is a weird one. I absolutely understand all the criticism and see the flaws, but I still play it and the breaks between two runs only get shorter. I love its rendition of SF and the Bay Area, the game has that je-ne-sais-quoi that draws me towards it.

                            Watch Dogs Legion though? Oh my goodness...

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                            Artwork
                            wrote last edited by artwork@lemmy.world
                            #69

                            Thank you! I believe both titles are abs((float)$incredible)/INF... The story, characters, references, technical features, or every single bit and algorithm is perfect...

                            Not to mention upgraded kernels and shells, including drones and 'dgets!
                            Yet it all may not match the "good" you are searching for at this particular moment, or would it? How could we know!
                            Both titles were developed by different genius teams even, the former is Ubisoft Monreal, the latter - Ubisoft Toronto!
                            I.e. Even if MetaSploit and not Snyk's or PortSwigger's but FOSS is there... you may still find that the payload in all the exploits the solution provides you with, written by OSINT or more hopefully red... authors on the wires, is indeed a required parameter to be set upon execution/injection by you, the main host in the network! 🦋

                            How to not find Watch_Dogs 2 and Watch_Dogs Legion both very different and ineffably marvelous...
                            I uploaded a few screenshots found in some remote backups:
                            - Watch_Dogs 2: https://imgur.com/a/GZ7F88U;
                            - Watch_Dogs Legion: https://imgur.com/a/U07Yfch (Wrench is there, too, with Aiden!); 👻

                            Being bored and hateful is a choice. It all depends on what you are searching for, doesn't it ^^

                            That is so... meta! ~ Wrench ✨


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                            • B beardededsquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                              Its world building and such is visual story telling.

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                              SharkAttak
                              wrote last edited by
                              #70

                              This makes me think that the guy ran through the game instead of playing it. Just because what happened isn't spoonfed it doesn't mean it's not there.
                              Reminds me of all the haters of Dear Esther.

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                              5
                              • F FiniteBanjo

                                Can Godmode be toggled in PS3?

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                                PrivateNoob
                                wrote last edited by
                                #71

                                I don't know that, I would guess not, probably

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                                • B bbbbbbbbbbb

                                  I did that for Control when I played that, I was just ready to be done. Im guessing by every other part of the review the person was also just ready for the game to end

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                                  FiniteBanjo
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #72

                                  I suppose people who don't enjoy overcoming challenges or figuring out strategies wouldn't enjoy a lot of videogames in general.

                                  N 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • Goddess of SpeedS Goddess of Speed
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                                    torfdot0@lemmy.world
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #73

                                    I have yet to play half life 2 (waiting on my son to get the motivation to help me beat decay, I’ve beat the other expansions)

                                    But I can’t imagine that half life 2 doesn’t hold up when the first game is a masterpiece that holds up better than pretty much any FPS released after it

                                    A 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • ArtworkA Artwork

                                      Sorry, no. And I am sorry you found LLM useful, and consider experimental/unverified data "dangerous", likely inadequately or for the sense of hateful trolling, and it's hard to live that way, I presume...

                                      Related:
                                      - https://lemmy.world/post/41419554/21487153
                                      - https://mander.xyz/post/45102281/24408089
                                      - https://lemmus.org/post/41151011/21366171

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                                      wren@lemmy.today
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #74

                                      Wanna share your ambien? I want to speak walrus with you.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • F FiniteBanjo

                                        I suppose people who don't enjoy overcoming challenges or figuring out strategies wouldn't enjoy a lot of videogames in general.

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                                        Nelots
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #75

                                        What does that have to do with anything? If someone's mentally checked out of the game so much that continuing to play through it becomes a slog, I can't blame them for cheating just to get it over with.

                                        F 1 Reply Last reply
                                        1
                                        • N Nelots

                                          What does that have to do with anything? If someone's mentally checked out of the game so much that continuing to play through it becomes a slog, I can't blame them for cheating just to get it over with.

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                                          FiniteBanjo
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #76

                                          If you're not going to enjoy playing the game then you're better off not finishing it, because by finishing it that way you've robbed yourself of the joy of overcoming the challenge.

                                          N 1 Reply Last reply
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