Legal action over 'unfair' Steam game store prices given go ahead
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Sounds good. Valve are doing a lot of things right but I often find that they go under the radar when compared to similar stories around Google and Apple.
Because Apple and Google are trying to lock down their platform to make sure there is no competition. The only thing Valve does is exist. Valve isn't trying to make it impossible for GOG or Itch or Epic store to exist, in fact Valve can't even do that (unless their SteamOS becomes a locked down platform which guarantees a consumer backlash) because PC is an open platform. Partly thanks to Valve you're no longer tied to Microslop either, you can swap to any Linux distro and have the vast majority of games still work. Valve isn't even using it's market position to keep competition down (even if the lawsuit tries to argue the opposite). The brought up arguments either have no impact on the consumer market or a things that other storefronts are also doing.
I'm not against having more competition on the storefront side, but this lawsuit is just about trying to squeeze money out of Valve.
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When you can't compete, sue.
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alleges Valve "forces" game publishers to sign up to conditions which prevents them from selling their titles earlier or for less on rival platforms.
As always, these moves are being perpetuated by scumbags who just want to make more money without putting in any additional effort.
If Steam is worth releasing a game on in the eyes of the developers, then they have to pay the price to do it. If it's not worth the price, then they are under no obligation at all to release their game on Steam.
Most games on Steam fail to gain any traction. If your game fails, it's not because it isn't on Steam; it's because it's a pile of shit and you're not special because you made something.
the main reason this lawsuit is even moving is that leaked emails that indicate valve has a price parity policy even for non steamkeys, I really doubt those leaked emails since I have seen first hand plenty of cases of games having different prices, sometimes even extreme differemce in pricing, for example, mindustry is paid ln steam but free on itch.io, google play store and fdroid
even if those emails are true, that only is proof of one case not a proof that there is systemic policy of doing that
many other, even more questionable claims are raised withour evidence or drawn very dubiosly in the law suit
this lawsuit is pure theatre
beyond this, plenty of companies have even more and clearly anti competitive with their practices extending beyond game selling and distribution, namely apple and google, who control respectively iOS' (very genericly poorly named) apps store and play store who clearly display anti competive behaviour and are clear monopolies
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Valve got to where they are by simply being the option that offered the most convenience to end users.
All the things this lawsuit is challenging are true. Valve does have a defacto monopoly on PC games distribution, they do not let you buy DLC on other platforms for games you own on steam, and they do take a 30% cut of sales.
Having these be limited by government regulation is a good thing. It would increase interoperability and increase competition in the space.
If those things get changed, people will still continue to use Steam because they continue to offer a service that "just works". Every other storefront that has attempted to compete seems to either trip over itself by trying some anti-consumer behavior to increase short term profit(EGS, Uplay), lack discoverability features(itch), or not offer enough benefit to endure cost of change(GoG)
Every other storefront that has attempted to compete seems to either trip over itself by trying some anti-consumer behavior to increase short term profit(EGS, Uplay), lack discoverability features(itch), or not offer enough benefit to endure cost of change(GoG)
I'd argue that GoG also falls into the lack of discovery catagory.
That said, I'd argue that the lack of discovery isn't just a player issue, but ties back into the other side: publishers and devs. These storefronts/launchers are unessisary middle men. A software company can run its own store, and make its own launcher. Just look at so many of the big titles over the last two decades: Minecraft, League, Tarkov, War Thunder, Roblox, and more recently Hytale. Looking at players is only half the puzzle, the other half is how these storefronts compete against each other, and even against direct-to-customer sales for publishers.
So, for publishers/devs, what does Steam offer?
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- A very robust support system
- Discoverability
- Tools for online play and social features
- Lightweight DRM for those who want it
- Modding tools
- A community forum
- Tools to add compatibility to your games
- A plethora of extra features that improve your product for the players
And at what cost?
- 30% cut
- Tied to a forum, whether you want to be or not
Now to compare to, lets say, GOG:
Offers:
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- Some user support
Costs:
- 30% cut
- DRM is banned
Because of this, its no wonder that they can't get more of the market. Why would someone choose to sell there over Steam, or even over direct-to-consumer?
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Every other storefront that has attempted to compete seems to either trip over itself by trying some anti-consumer behavior to increase short term profit(EGS, Uplay), lack discoverability features(itch), or not offer enough benefit to endure cost of change(GoG)
I'd argue that GoG also falls into the lack of discovery catagory.
That said, I'd argue that the lack of discovery isn't just a player issue, but ties back into the other side: publishers and devs. These storefronts/launchers are unessisary middle men. A software company can run its own store, and make its own launcher. Just look at so many of the big titles over the last two decades: Minecraft, League, Tarkov, War Thunder, Roblox, and more recently Hytale. Looking at players is only half the puzzle, the other half is how these storefronts compete against each other, and even against direct-to-customer sales for publishers.
So, for publishers/devs, what does Steam offer?
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- A very robust support system
- Discoverability
- Tools for online play and social features
- Lightweight DRM for those who want it
- Modding tools
- A community forum
- Tools to add compatibility to your games
- A plethora of extra features that improve your product for the players
And at what cost?
- 30% cut
- Tied to a forum, whether you want to be or not
Now to compare to, lets say, GOG:
Offers:
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- Some user support
Costs:
- 30% cut
- DRM is banned
Because of this, its no wonder that they can't get more of the market. Why would someone choose to sell there over Steam, or even over direct-to-consumer?
A software company can run its own store, and make its own launcher. Just look at so many of the big titles over the last two decades: Minecraft, League, Tarkov, War Thunder, Roblox, and more recently Hytale.
This is also survivorship and selection bias though. Not only would you not have heard of the ones that failed, but these are the games confident enough to not launch on Steam in the first place. Several of them are so old that Steam was in its infancy and not the de facto storefront when they came out.
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There are games on Steam that don't have DRM (since it's not a requirement from Valve). The most prominent examples I can think of are games from Toby Fox and Klei Entertainment.
I'd love to see this as an official tag on the store page.
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"You're company is too user friendly and everyone likes you. Its uncompetetive because we are trying to rip them off"
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Every other storefront that has attempted to compete seems to either trip over itself by trying some anti-consumer behavior to increase short term profit(EGS, Uplay), lack discoverability features(itch), or not offer enough benefit to endure cost of change(GoG)
I'd argue that GoG also falls into the lack of discovery catagory.
That said, I'd argue that the lack of discovery isn't just a player issue, but ties back into the other side: publishers and devs. These storefronts/launchers are unessisary middle men. A software company can run its own store, and make its own launcher. Just look at so many of the big titles over the last two decades: Minecraft, League, Tarkov, War Thunder, Roblox, and more recently Hytale. Looking at players is only half the puzzle, the other half is how these storefronts compete against each other, and even against direct-to-customer sales for publishers.
So, for publishers/devs, what does Steam offer?
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- A very robust support system
- Discoverability
- Tools for online play and social features
- Lightweight DRM for those who want it
- Modding tools
- A community forum
- Tools to add compatibility to your games
- A plethora of extra features that improve your product for the players
And at what cost?
- 30% cut
- Tied to a forum, whether you want to be or not
Now to compare to, lets say, GOG:
Offers:
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- Some user support
Costs:
- 30% cut
- DRM is banned
Because of this, its no wonder that they can't get more of the market. Why would someone choose to sell there over Steam, or even over direct-to-consumer?
You left off the newer steam deck which opens your games up to a mobile audience.
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the main reason this lawsuit is even moving is that leaked emails that indicate valve has a price parity policy even for non steamkeys, I really doubt those leaked emails since I have seen first hand plenty of cases of games having different prices, sometimes even extreme differemce in pricing, for example, mindustry is paid ln steam but free on itch.io, google play store and fdroid
even if those emails are true, that only is proof of one case not a proof that there is systemic policy of doing that
many other, even more questionable claims are raised withour evidence or drawn very dubiosly in the law suit
this lawsuit is pure theatre
beyond this, plenty of companies have even more and clearly anti competitive with their practices extending beyond game selling and distribution, namely apple and google, who control respectively iOS' (very genericly poorly named) apps store and play store who clearly display anti competive behaviour and are clear monopolies
Mindustry is straight up open source, it is available on github under the GNU GPL v3
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You left off the newer steam deck which opens your games up to a mobile audience.
Just to be clear, distributing on Steam adds nothing functional to a game's playability on the Steam Deck (afaik). A game from GOG can be played in a Deck just as well as one from Steam, albeit with slightly more effort.
That said, I know customers will flow toward the path of least resistance, so even a little more effort will push them towards a different source.
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Every other storefront that has attempted to compete seems to either trip over itself by trying some anti-consumer behavior to increase short term profit(EGS, Uplay), lack discoverability features(itch), or not offer enough benefit to endure cost of change(GoG)
I'd argue that GoG also falls into the lack of discovery catagory.
That said, I'd argue that the lack of discovery isn't just a player issue, but ties back into the other side: publishers and devs. These storefronts/launchers are unessisary middle men. A software company can run its own store, and make its own launcher. Just look at so many of the big titles over the last two decades: Minecraft, League, Tarkov, War Thunder, Roblox, and more recently Hytale. Looking at players is only half the puzzle, the other half is how these storefronts compete against each other, and even against direct-to-customer sales for publishers.
So, for publishers/devs, what does Steam offer?
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- A very robust support system
- Discoverability
- Tools for online play and social features
- Lightweight DRM for those who want it
- Modding tools
- A community forum
- Tools to add compatibility to your games
- A plethora of extra features that improve your product for the players
And at what cost?
- 30% cut
- Tied to a forum, whether you want to be or not
Now to compare to, lets say, GOG:
Offers:
- Payment processing
- Distribution
- Some user support
Costs:
- 30% cut
- DRM is banned
Because of this, its no wonder that they can't get more of the market. Why would someone choose to sell there over Steam, or even over direct-to-consumer?
unessisaryunecessaryJust a little correction.
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I'll be that guy and say that I do prefer buying from GOG, going as far as paying more money in doing so, so the issue isn't really 'friction' but 'mfs don't bother offering on GOG'.
My hate for drm has only grown over the last two decades, and so I'll get stuff wherever I can that isn't plastered with it. But it's not even a rounding error in comparing the number of games available of steam vs GOG. You'd have to go so far out with zeros that you fall off the page before encountering a positive value (0.00000[...]00001%). Which is upsetting and frustrating, since the other option is steam or piracy. And I do like rewarding developers for their work, so that leaves one option basically all the time.
In terms of straight numbers, isn't Steam's large "advantage" there it's offering of independent, mostly unregulated games from small time devs? Are those really using drm? Even if there are, I don't really think most users are choosing Steam over GOG for access to "Asset Flip #57354".
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A software company can run its own store, and make its own launcher. Just look at so many of the big titles over the last two decades: Minecraft, League, Tarkov, War Thunder, Roblox, and more recently Hytale.
This is also survivorship and selection bias though. Not only would you not have heard of the ones that failed, but these are the games confident enough to not launch on Steam in the first place. Several of them are so old that Steam was in its infancy and not the de facto storefront when they came out.
My point is that it is an option, and still a competitive one, when so many still use this option. If it wasn't, these games wouldn't have succeeded and/or would have died off. Its an option middlemen have to out-compete, and I'd argue many don't.
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alleges Valve “forces” game publishers to sign up to conditions which prevents them from selling their titles earlier or for less on rival platforms.
Epic gives away games for free that cost money on Steam. The fuck is this person talking about?
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Just to be clear, distributing on Steam adds nothing functional to a game's playability on the Steam Deck (afaik). A game from GOG can be played in a Deck just as well as one from Steam, albeit with slightly more effort.
That said, I know customers will flow toward the path of least resistance, so even a little more effort will push them towards a different source.
albeit with slightly more effort.
customers will flow toward the path of least resistance
I think that's the crux of it. It can be done, but I would bet the vast majority are just playing steam games on SteamOS
So if you launch on Steam, you can reach PC users and Mobile users, and someone might decide to buy the game on steam knowing it will work easily on both.
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I'll be that guy and say that I do prefer buying from GOG, going as far as paying more money in doing so, so the issue isn't really 'friction' but 'mfs don't bother offering on GOG'.
My hate for drm has only grown over the last two decades, and so I'll get stuff wherever I can that isn't plastered with it. But it's not even a rounding error in comparing the number of games available of steam vs GOG. You'd have to go so far out with zeros that you fall off the page before encountering a positive value (0.00000[...]00001%). Which is upsetting and frustrating, since the other option is steam or piracy. And I do like rewarding developers for their work, so that leaves one option basically all the time.
Indeed, and now what GoG is pursuing stronger Linux offerings I may shop there more, but Valve had contributed more than just a shop and launcher. The Linux work with Steam Deck and Proton has been invaluable.
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In terms of straight numbers, isn't Steam's large "advantage" there it's offering of independent, mostly unregulated games from small time devs? Are those really using drm? Even if there are, I don't really think most users are choosing Steam over GOG for access to "Asset Flip #57354".
I thought the small indie devs were mostly on itch?
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alleges Valve "forces" game publishers to sign up to conditions which prevents them from selling their titles earlier or for less on rival platforms.
As always, these moves are being perpetuated by scumbags who just want to make more money without putting in any additional effort.
If Steam is worth releasing a game on in the eyes of the developers, then they have to pay the price to do it. If it's not worth the price, then they are under no obligation at all to release their game on Steam.
Most games on Steam fail to gain any traction. If your game fails, it's not because it isn't on Steam; it's because it's a pile of shit and you're not special because you made something.
It's more nuanced than that.
Choosing not to release on Steam isn't easy because it's not a balanced market, at all. It's trying to release a Disney-style animated movie, but only in adult theatres.
Steam is the 900-pound gorilla. Yes, they have a good interface, but they take a ludicrous portion of game revenue. Epic has a shit interface, but they take well-under half of the fees Steammdoes for the same game.
Gabe is not your friend. He's a billionaire yacht-collector. Half-Life 2 wasn't designed to be a great game. It was designed to launch a digital storefront that allowed Valve to rake in 30% of all revenue for games sold on the platform - which is often a larger percentage than is paid to the actual people making the games.
Why are we defending a system where the fucking checkout system is valued as much as the people making the games?
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Mindustry is straight up open source, it is available on github under the GNU GPL v3
It's worth giving the dev his $5 though. Great game and open source
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I thought the small indie devs were mostly on itch?
Itch is exclusively indie devs, afaik, but since Steam started their Greenlight initiative, the number of games released per year has rocketed up. 2012, the year Greenlight started, only 441 games were released on steam. Two years later in 2014, almost 1500 games were released. 2017 released 5600. 2021 released 10,200. And last year had over 21k. How much of that do we think is really DRM'd, AAA published software?
