Bluesky just verified ICE
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I get why this would bug people.
It's a small act of legitimizing the domestic Gestapo, but we've already seen that the corporate social media is a-okay with platforming terrorists, Nazis, and the worst.
That's why we're on Lemmy instead.
Pretty sure American tax dollars are what legitimized ice, unfortunately.
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ICE is attacking and brutalizing people, daily. Killing them. Blinding them. They do not deserve any platform for them to post their hate.
Haven’t posted yet? So what? This is some dumbass free speech absolutism that brought us to timelines like these.
US govt has been doing that for a long time outside America. Obama incinerated plenty of kids where’s the calls to have him removed?
Just seems a bit racist is all
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We also want to ensure that conservatives are repeatedly alienated so they build their own networks and never see other points of view! /s
But mostly just don't want to see points of view that we disagree with.
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On paper it's a government agency which would normally be allowed to have verification.
However it is a government agency functioning more like a hate group, right now very inimical to the concept and idea of civil rights (already enshrined as law), and hostile to diversity and social justice; with absolutely no regulation of its activities, it is an agency mandated directly by the executive to remove anyone who is not white and Christian.
Unfortunately, Bluesky still has to verify them.
Why does Bluesky have to verify them? They are a terror group, using social media to recruit and further their racist terrorism. I don't think they should be pre-emptively banned necessarily but I don't buy these arguments here about how they must be given a microphone to broadcast nazi messages.
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solid majority of the popular vote
narrow plurality
Even then it's highly dubious that it was even a plurality. Vote counts in swing states were HIGHLY irregular and 100% controlled by Musk.
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But mostly just don't want to see points of view that we disagree with.
Echo chamber in different words. I grew up with a lot of conservatives. Hard second amendment people. They listen if you listen
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I welcome another avenue to let them know how much I hate them.
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They have admins ban any and all accounts that might be made by ice or ice personnel?
yes.
ok, but how do they know which accounts those are?
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So the mastodon service supports Nazis.
nobody owns it and anyone can run it
They could have chosen a license that forbid usage for spreading hate. They put "free software" and "open source" above blocking hate speech.
They're providing software to Nazis, and I don't really see how that makes them better than providing a place to post.There is no Mastodon service. Its an application anyone can download and run. I understand your frustration, but it seems like you're mad at the universe they exist in for its role in housing them.
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Isn't the whole point of the verification checkmark is to make sure nobody impersonate well known people/organizations? I know Twitter eventually turned it into a whole cash grab subscription and ruined the concept, but on most other platforms it isn't treated like some premium subscription and is just a means of knowing who is who.
Bluesky has a great self-verification system, no checkmark involved. In case someone hasn't noticed, your username is a domain name, but only nerds use it.
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If ICE where to join a fediverse instance they would most likely get insta-banned or their instanced would be defederated from large portions of the fediverse very quick.
TBF users on bluesky are pretty quick to block out the Nazis also. They don't tend to get much traction at least for now.
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There is no Mastodon service. Its an application anyone can download and run. I understand your frustration, but it seems like you're mad at the universe they exist in for its role in housing them.
No, you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not the person you were replying to.
Mastodon is a piece of software. It has a license, just like bluesky or any other. You can put a clause in the license saying the software cannot be used for the dissemination of hate speech. The open source community has discussed this and decided it goes against the principles of free software and open source.If you're mad at one and not the other, you're applying different standards because being part of the fediverse weighs more.
Personally I hold platforms to a different standard and so I'm neither mad at mastodon nor bluesky. I just think it's hypocritical to be mad at someone for publishing a fascists letter but not be mad at the person who gave the same fascist a printing press.
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Does a verification equate to an endorsement now? I'm strongly against ICE, but as long as ICE exists, then it makes sense to verify their official account. That's all verification is to me at least, just something to let you know it's the real _ account rather than an imposter.
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Does a verification equate to an endorsement now? I'm strongly against ICE, but as long as ICE exists, then it makes sense to verify their official account. That's all verification is to me at least, just something to let you know it's the real _ account rather than an imposter.
Yes, I think it’s an especially good idea to verify them right now. I don’t want some imposter escalating a war.
Do I want them in my spaces? Fuck no. I would prefer to abolish ICE and arrest all those treasonous fuckers.
But, that’s the reality of the world right now. It’s important to know what is real and what isn’t.
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It's just all emotion and no rational thought now. People just go into outrage mode when certain topics are mentioned.
Really it opens a channel to criticize ICE without needing to logon to X to do so. But that's bad because preventing communication is good?
Of course I doubt ICE will care about criticism directed towards their account on bluesky. But that means things said on the internet don't have much of an effect on things, which means it doesn't matter whether they're on bluesky (or any other forum).
Mostly it's about some weird belief by some about controlling what is being said on the internet gains power. You'd think the events that have happened would have proven this wrong, but still people continue to be upset about things being said on the internet and want some power over those things.
Really words on the internet don't matter as much as people think, and the idea of blocking unwanted information is annoying at best and can lead to ignorance. What matters is the horrible acts ICE is doing. We should want more light being shown on them, and welcome any potential channel of discussion.
Wanting to prevent discussion indicates you feel you're in the wrong. ICE is indicating they want discussion, while those that are outraged by ICE being on bluesky are indicating they don't want discussion on ICE. Why would anyone want to make is seem ICE is in the right while they're in the wrong? It's people not thinking and only reacting emotionally and handing ICE a W because they are raging instead of thinking.
To me, this feels like school politics.
OMG! Jaden invited ICE to his birthday party! I'm never talking to him again!
Oh No! ICE nabbed Julio! I'm telling the teacher and they will get suspended!
Probably a good number of these people are actual children. I know there are adults who have broadly similar ideas. For someone living a very sheltered and privileged life, being trolled on the internet is the absolute worst form of aggression they ever experience. Particularly in Europe, activists and politicians talk about "digital violence", which tells you that they have no sense of proportion.
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I think that tech companies taking a stand on what their employees and/or users believe in is a reasonable thing.
Idk what the employees of bluesky believe, but I'm fairly familiar with the bay area tech scene and I think that there is a decent chance that the employees would like to take a stand by not providing services to ICE.
That being said, idk if simply allowing them to have an account is providing services. I think it's probably better to have govt agencies have verified accounts so people know when things are official statements, even if you disagree with the agency.
I think that tech companies taking a stand on what their employees and/or users believe in is a reasonable thing.
How would that actually work? Like, you'd have pro-Trump and anti-Trump companies that only employ pro- and anti-Trump employees and only serve pro- and anti-Trump customers? What happens when someone who is basically pro-Trump thinks that ICE goes too far?
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I think that tech companies taking a stand on what their employees and/or users believe in is a reasonable thing.
How would that actually work? Like, you'd have pro-Trump and anti-Trump companies that only employ pro- and anti-Trump employees and only serve pro- and anti-Trump customers? What happens when someone who is basically pro-Trump thinks that ICE goes too far?
It's illegal to hire people or refuse to hire people based on political beliefs or affiliation, so you're not gonna have companies that only employ Trump supporters or employ no Trump supporters. Politics is considered a protected group wrt employment law in the USA and many countries.
But how would it actually work?
It's not like it's difficult to gauge employee sentiment about ICE. If your employees are strongly against it, then you simply don't enter the competition for ICE contracts, or you choose to not renew the contracts when they expire. -
Does a verification equate to an endorsement now? I'm strongly against ICE, but as long as ICE exists, then it makes sense to verify their official account. That's all verification is to me at least, just something to let you know it's the real _ account rather than an imposter.
Yes, platforming Nazis is a bad idea. The correct response would be to ban the account and any similar accounts.
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And miss out on all the juicy trolling opportunities?
Yes, driving Nazis from society is more important than including them so you can then performatively dunk on them.
I honestly cannot believe anyone here would struggle to understand that. Come on ffs
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No, you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not the person you were replying to.
Mastodon is a piece of software. It has a license, just like bluesky or any other. You can put a clause in the license saying the software cannot be used for the dissemination of hate speech. The open source community has discussed this and decided it goes against the principles of free software and open source.If you're mad at one and not the other, you're applying different standards because being part of the fediverse weighs more.
Personally I hold platforms to a different standard and so I'm neither mad at mastodon nor bluesky. I just think it's hypocritical to be mad at someone for publishing a fascists letter but not be mad at the person who gave the same fascist a printing press.
You can put a clause in the license saying the software cannot be used for the dissemination of hate speech. The open source community has discussed this and decided it goes against the principles of free software and open source.
Says who? How can you authoritatively say the open source community has decided something collectively on this subject? That categorically doesn't make sense on multiple different dimensions.
