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  3. Why medieval city-builder video games are historically inaccurate - Leiden Medievalists Blog

Why medieval city-builder video games are historically inaccurate - Leiden Medievalists Blog

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  • Agent_KaryoA Agent_Karyo
    This post did not contain any content.
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    murrayl@lemmy.world
    wrote last edited by
    #2

    Written in 2020 but still an interesting read. I wonder what the author thinks of games that have released in the intervening years, like Manor Lords, Going Medieval, and Farthest Frontier?

    R S 2 Replies Last reply
    53
    • Agent_KaryoA Agent_Karyo
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      it_depends_man@lemmy.world
      wrote last edited by
      #3

      Pretty insightful. Key takeaways:

      1. linear growth didn't really happen like that
      2. pre-planning would be good
      3. experience of tax collectors skimming the surplus, plus hazards of rural life.
      S 1 Reply Last reply
      36
      • Agent_KaryoA Agent_Karyo
        This post did not contain any content.
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        DrSleepless
        wrote last edited by
        #4

        Video games aren’t supposed to be realistic, they’re supposed to be fun

        Don Antonio MaginoD ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA ValmondV ☂️-U I 6 Replies Last reply
        98
        • Agent_KaryoA Agent_Karyo
          This post did not contain any content.
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          hailseitan@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #5

          E 1 Reply Last reply
          10
          • D DrSleepless

            Video games aren’t supposed to be realistic, they’re supposed to be fun

            Don Antonio MaginoD This user is from outside of this forum
            Don Antonio MaginoD This user is from outside of this forum
            Don Antonio Magino
            wrote last edited by
            #6

            It’s still interesting to analyse them like the cultural products they are.

            F 1 Reply Last reply
            72
            • M murrayl@lemmy.world

              Written in 2020 but still an interesting read. I wonder what the author thinks of games that have released in the intervening years, like Manor Lords, Going Medieval, and Farthest Frontier?

              R This user is from outside of this forum
              R This user is from outside of this forum
              riplemmdotee@lemmy.today
              wrote last edited by
              #7

              Well, it looks like someone did an interview with a medieval historian about Manor Lords.

              https://youtu.be/KS56GUgb-08

              1 Reply Last reply
              18
              • H hailseitan@lemmy.world

                E This user is from outside of this forum
                E This user is from outside of this forum
                Ephera
                wrote last edited by
                #8

                It's pretty much just a hook into infodumping about medieval cities...

                H 1 Reply Last reply
                21
                • D DrSleepless

                  Video games aren’t supposed to be realistic, they’re supposed to be fun

                  ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
                  ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
                  ampersandrew@lemmy.world
                  wrote last edited by
                  #9

                  You can do all sorts of things with video games, even when sticking to realism, if it helps you achieve your goals.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  9
                  • E Ephera

                    It's pretty much just a hook into infodumping about medieval cities...

                    H This user is from outside of this forum
                    H This user is from outside of this forum
                    hailseitan@lemmy.world
                    wrote last edited by
                    #10

                    In a games community…

                    G 1 Reply Last reply
                    2
                    • Don Antonio MaginoD Don Antonio Magino

                      It’s still interesting to analyse them like the cultural products they are.

                      F This user is from outside of this forum
                      F This user is from outside of this forum
                      fartmaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                      wrote last edited by
                      #11

                      Yeah, examining the ways they are inaccurate tells us a lot about ourselves.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      19
                      • Agent_KaryoA Agent_Karyo
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                        EarMasterE This user is from outside of this forum
                        EarMasterE This user is from outside of this forum
                        EarMaster
                        wrote last edited by earmaster@lemmy.world
                        #12

                        Well then I guess the Wolfenstein games aren't historically accurate either…?

                        What a shock!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        7
                        • H hailseitan@lemmy.world

                          In a games community…

                          G This user is from outside of this forum
                          G This user is from outside of this forum
                          grantuseyes@lemmy.zip
                          wrote last edited by
                          #13

                          Some of us like getting insight into the stuff that inspires the things we consume.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • I it_depends_man@lemmy.world

                            Pretty insightful. Key takeaways:

                            1. linear growth didn't really happen like that
                            2. pre-planning would be good
                            3. experience of tax collectors skimming the surplus, plus hazards of rural life.
                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            lad
                            wrote last edited by
                            #14

                            Yeah, I thought life was hard but sustainable mostly, turns out one was always at risk of extinction:

                            Medieval villagers were often living on the edge of subsistence. Agricultural surpluses were skimmed by the church and the feudal lords. Bad harvests, banditry, warfare and disease might decimate a village community at any time. For this very reason, the demography of many European villages remained relatively stable between the twelfth and the eighteenth century.

                            L A 2 Replies Last reply
                            8
                            • S lad

                              Yeah, I thought life was hard but sustainable mostly, turns out one was always at risk of extinction:

                              Medieval villagers were often living on the edge of subsistence. Agricultural surpluses were skimmed by the church and the feudal lords. Bad harvests, banditry, warfare and disease might decimate a village community at any time. For this very reason, the demography of many European villages remained relatively stable between the twelfth and the eighteenth century.

                              L This user is from outside of this forum
                              L This user is from outside of this forum
                              leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                              wrote last edited by
                              #15

                              relatively stable between the twelfth and the eighteenth century

                              Hm... wasn't there like a 33% dip back in the fourteenth, not counting subsequent migration to the cities and whatnot..?

                              S 1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • D DrSleepless

                                Video games aren’t supposed to be realistic, they’re supposed to be fun

                                ValmondV This user is from outside of this forum
                                ValmondV This user is from outside of this forum
                                Valmond
                                wrote last edited by
                                #16

                                Noo I want to spend 50 years before I can have a second well!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                13
                                • S lad

                                  Yeah, I thought life was hard but sustainable mostly, turns out one was always at risk of extinction:

                                  Medieval villagers were often living on the edge of subsistence. Agricultural surpluses were skimmed by the church and the feudal lords. Bad harvests, banditry, warfare and disease might decimate a village community at any time. For this very reason, the demography of many European villages remained relatively stable between the twelfth and the eighteenth century.

                                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                                  A This user is from outside of this forum
                                  aqarius@lemmy.world
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #17

                                  If I remember Devereaux, the village itself was set up to minimise that risk first and foremost, at the expense of optimisation for max yields. So, every year was around subsistence, never much above, but also never much lower.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  2
                                  • L leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                                    relatively stable between the twelfth and the eighteenth century

                                    Hm... wasn't there like a 33% dip back in the fourteenth, not counting subsequent migration to the cities and whatnot..?

                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    lad
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #18

                                    I don't know, we need a medievalist here

                                    L 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • D DrSleepless

                                      Video games aren’t supposed to be realistic, they’re supposed to be fun

                                      ☂️-U This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ☂️-U This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ☂️-
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #19

                                      realistic is sometimes fun

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      11
                                      • D DrSleepless

                                        Video games aren’t supposed to be realistic, they’re supposed to be fun

                                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ilovepizza@lemmy.world
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #20

                                        Simulator then?

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        1
                                        • Agent_KaryoA Agent_Karyo
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                                          JackbyDevJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          JackbyDevJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          JackbyDev
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #21

                                          This is a great article! It's really interesting.

                                          I have two comments to make, and I hope nobody thinks this is me trying to disagree with the article or something, I don't want it to come across as defensive. In explaining some of the challenges medieval cities go through and saying Banished is a pretty accurate game, I think this might just be a genre issue. I consider Banished a colony management game, not a city builder, and indeed, in colony management games your people's health and safety are usually a much larger concern than in a city builder.

                                          The second comment is that the writer suggests a game with flood mechanics and arable farm land. I don't remember if it was out in March of 2020, but Timberland is out now. It's a beaver based colony management game that includes a lot of fluid dynamics. It has flood mechanics like described. It's unrealistic, of course, because they're beavers. But also because flooding isn't the end of the world if it gets into your buildings, I think it's more of an inconvenience. Regardless, I think it's a cool game to check out.

                                          Agent_KaryoA 1 Reply Last reply
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